Today is Veterans Day

[Hatta]

A lot of people criticize the way the Iraq and Afghanistan wars have been handled (or that they have even happened) without realizing that the shape of the world has changed a lot as a result of the fall of the Soviet Union back in 1991.

It hasn't changed that much. Remember the USSR spent 25 years trying to conquer Afghanistan and they failed for the same reason we are failing now. The problems we are facing were entirely predictable before we went in. It will end the same way too, the enemy will wait it out, and we will slink away with our tails between our legs. We will have nothing to show for it, and the Taliban may well be stronger after we leave than they were when we went in.

[Haoie]

I guess our local equivalent is ANZAC day - Most of you won't have ever heard of it. It's in Apr.

[alienjesus]

I guess our local equivalent is ANZAC day - Most of you won't have ever heard of it. It's in Apr.

I've heard of it. ANZAC stands for Australia and New Zealand Army Corps or something doesnt it?
I was in New Zealand once on ANZAC day.

[ZeroAX]

We have to remove the causes that compel young Muslim men to fall in with terrorist cells - namely unemployment, hatred of the West, and the radical perversion of Islam that violent and self-interested Clerics have been using to recruit soldiers.

and they said curing cancer was hard.


Imo the middle east will become peaceful when it runs out of oil/oil stops going through it/we stop using oil.

Every single war since the beginning of time has been about resources/money (from the cave men's hunting grounds to Germany wanting some colonies and access to oil and the British and French saying no you can't have any (WW1))


As long as the middle east is important for the West's economies, that region will never be stable.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10198036

At least the Germans aren't pretentious.

[Flake]

Or removing our (the West) support for Israel and Saudi Arabia would be a good start. Too bad the house of Saud has over 2 trillion dollars invested in the United States economy.

Ugh, it's such a mess. So easy to sum up the problem; 100% impossible to find a way out.

[MrPopo]

Ugh, it's such a mess. So easy to sum up the problem; 100% impossible to find a way out.

I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

[ZeroAX]

Ugh, it's such a mess. So easy to sum up the problem; 100% impossible to find a way out.

I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

you know some of us live pretty close there.

I'm going to agree with removing support for Israel and Saudi Arabia

[Limewater]

you know some of us live pretty close there.

I'm going to agree with removing support for Israel and Saudi Arabia

I don't think that will make much of a difference. I am not sure there is a time in recorded history when the middle east wasn't unstable. I mean, it was probably fine prior to its habitation by man, but past that?

[Flake]

I don't think that will make much of a difference. I am not sure there is a time in recorded history when the middle east wasn't unstable. I mean, it was probably fine prior to its habitation by man, but past that?

The Ottoman Empire, dude. Until the mid 1800's the Turks controlled pretty much the entire area we call 'the middle east'. The Ottoman Empire was the main Muslim player in European affairs and was one of the most powerful and wealthy states of all time. It was an incredibly stable empire, lasting nearly 650 years.

In the aftermath of World War I the Ottoman Empire was partitioned by the victors - the Age of Imperialism was coming to an end and both France and Britain were quite desperate to gain / hold on to territory. Lines denoting new countries were pretty much drawn at random on the map, with NO regard for regional issues or tribal isolation between different Muslim sects. It's not unlike what Europe did in Africa a century and a half before.


It was Western interference that created many of the issues that have ticked Muslims in the Middle East off so badly - the support / installation of the House of Saud, the creation of the State of Israel, the rise of Saddam Houssein, selling of weapons (including biological weapons) to both sides in several conflicts. Before the last hundred years, the Middle East was no more unstable than Europe was. Let's not forget that European stability is a rare novelty - not even 50 years ago most of Europe was laid waste by Europeans. It was only 140 years ago that the United States devastated itself.