What Constitutes an RPG

[yomomma1]

The first part of my post was about instant gratification. The second part, I am going to explain.
Some rpgs do not have a reward, because it is a bad game.

Also, I believe you are talking about Linear JRPGs. By your definition Open world rpgs that don't rely on story, but more on gameplay aren't rpgs. You seem to be ignorant of certain rpg sub genres.

[Gamerforlife]

There is no instant gratification in an RPG. It's all a slow build-up that involves a great deal of investment on the part of the player - and it's because of this that RPGs are far more personal experiences.

Totally true, it's both why I love and hate the genre. Love it for how rewarding they are for the time you invest in them. Hate them for the huge amount of commitment they require. Pretty much demanding that you put aside any other game you're playing and not plan on playing anything else for at least a month. There are people out there who've played practically every great rpg there is, and it's hard for me to imagine that they ever have time for any other genre

[MrPopo]

There are people out there who've played practically every great rpg there is, and it's hard for me to imagine that they ever have time for any other genre

It's very very hard to pull off. I still have a massive backlog of good RPGs. I use other games as palette cleansers.

[the7k]

Totally true, it's both why I love and hate the genre. Love it for how rewarding they are for the time you invest in them. Hate them for the huge amount of commitment they require. Pretty much demanding that you put aside any other game you're playing and not plan on playing anything else for at least a month. There are people out there who've played practically every great rpg there is, and it's hard for me to imagine that they ever have time for any other genre

Yeah, it's because of the huge time commitments RPGs require that I have finished very, very few of them. I can count the number of RPGs I have finished on my hands.

Even some of the most fun RPGs will wear me thin eventually, and then I'll move on. Unfortunately, moving on means that when I come back to it, I will be completely lost and have no idea what is going - meaning that 'moving on' is in actuality 'abandoning'.

[dsheinem]

I just read through this whole thread and ...wow...

I personally consider Zelda an RPG as it has enough of the RPG trappings (despite missing some) to fall most neatly into that genre. By contrast, something like Shadow of the Colossus is clearly more of an adventure game, despite some RPG elements. I also know that Zelda has always been cited high on lists of "best RPGs" by most game publications/websites, so I've always seen my opinion confirmed publicly.

The question that I have - why do people care so much about defining the term? What's at stake here?

[AppleQueso]

Nothing's at stake, it's just a thread, don't assume we're taking this more seriously than we actually are.

It's just that the nature of the discussion makes it seem worse than it is.

[dsheinem]

Nothing's at stake, it's just a thread, don't assume we're taking this more seriously than we actually are.

It's just that the nature of the discussion makes it seem worse than it is.

Oh, so it's a pointless thread?

[AppleQueso]

Nothing's at stake, it's just a thread, don't assume we're taking this more seriously than we actually are.

It's just that the nature of the discussion makes it seem worse than it is.

Oh, so it's a pointless thread?

about as pointless as any other

[Gamerforlife]

I just read through this whole thread and ...wow...

I personally consider Zelda an RPG as it has enough of the RPG trappings (despite missing some) to fall most neatly into that genre. By contrast, something like Shadow of the Colossus is clearly more of an adventure game, despite some RPG elements. I also know that Zelda has always been cited high on lists of "best RPGs" by most game publications/websites, so I've always seen my opinion confirmed publicly.

The question that I have - why do people care so much about defining the term? What's at stake here?

Zelda is missing more than "some" trappings and does not fall "neatly" into the rpg genre. I'm pretty firm on this debate. It is NOT an rpg and this thread has already proven that in multiple posts. And any site that cites it among "best rpgs" has ZERO credibility.

I hate debates like this because with very few exceptions, genres are VERY easy to identify and usually when debates like this pop up it's because of people trying to force a game into a genre it clearly doesn't belong in, Zelda being one of the best examples.

And Shadow of the Colossus has absolutely zero rpg elements and falls into the EXACT same genre that I have already said Zelda belongs to, the console adventure genre. And upon further reflection, so does Shenmue, which I think I mentioned in a previous post. Or you can say these games are action adventure, but every adventure game I have played has action so I don't see the point of adding action to the description.

Adventure games:Zelda, Prince of Persia, Tomb Raider, Shadow of the Colossus, Beyond Good and Evil, Ico, Primal

RPGS:Final Fantasy, Grandia, Shin Megami Tensei series, Shadow Hearts, Legend of Dragoon

This isn't rocket science people

[dsheinem]

Zelda is missing more than "some" trappings and does not fall "neatly" into the rpg genre.

I said "most neatly" as in the game falls more neatly into the RPG genre than into the action or adventure genre. JT's post a few pages back gives a good list of reasons why.

I'm pretty firm on this debate. It is NOT an rpg and this thread has already proven that in multiple posts. And any site that cites it among "best rpgs" has ZERO credibility.

Nothing has been "proven" at all, but good cases have been made for both positions. You've made a strong case and I understand your reasoning, but at the end of the day your personal definition doesn't gel with my own. I am unpersuaded to change my view based on your arguments.

And Shadow of the Colossus has absolutely zero rpg elements and falls into the EXACT same genre that I have already said Zelda belongs to, the console adventure genre.

I chose to mention SotC based on it's mention in RPGfan article posted previously in the thread. It's a good read on the subject: http://www.rpgfan.com/news/2010/54.html.

Adventure games:Zelda, Prince of Persia, Tomb Raider, Shadow of the Colossus, Beyond Good and Evil, Ico, Primal

RPGS:Final Fantasy, Grandia, Shin Megami Tensei series, Shadow Hearts, Legend of Dragoon

I see Zelda as having much more in common with Final Fantasy than with Tomb Raider or Prince of Persia.