Im about 6 years out of date when in comes to this stuff, so i was just gonna see what you guys think. I am going for the cheapest price possible, but still able to play some of the games I have missed out on, like the "source" games(Counterstrike source, etc.) Battlefield 2142, COD 2, you know. This is what I got so far:
This barebones kit: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6856167009
This CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819103774
RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820161172
HD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822210004
The only problem I see is the MOBO's pci express only runs a 8x. Is this really going to make a difference, or should I be fine with that? Im not trying for max settings or anything, but more like medium to high. I would like to put a 7600gt in, but will probably get a 8600gt for DX10 support and its a good bit faster for an extra 20$. Also, can I overclock my cpu with this board? The cpu I chose is supposed to overclock well, and I have no idea what to do there, but would like to learn. I have plenty of DVD burners/drives at the house.
So anyway....is this going to work alright? The price sits right now at $290.88(no video card of course) with shipping, and I would like to keep it around that price. Right now i have a Pentium 3@933mhz, so this is a huge upgrade to me.
Building a new pc, need advice
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lordofduct
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I'm not an AMD user, so I'm not big on the AMD... but I know that is just a two sided BS fight we don't need to get into. The processor itself, from what I do know, isn't that bad at all especially for the price.
the barebone kit on the other hand. Crap power supply, and that chipset is a bit sub par. You may want to look into a newer mobo with a better chipset. The 405 is a bit outdated and doesn't really handle dual core all the best in the world. (this is also why your getting the crap PCI-E speed off of it, it's very outdated... basically it has a secondary controller chip running in tandem with it to add these extra features. NOT GOOD!)
I have no complaints with the RAM... I could get into technicalities and the sort, but your going for price... and really for an "affordable" PC, RAM that works is RAM that works... latency isn't high on your list of priorities.
As for video card options. Well, for lower end vid cards with an 8X PCIe port you probably won't notice any freakin' difference. i.e. anything in the early 7 series from GeForce and earlier. These things were made with AGP in mind that maxed out at 8X AGP (similar to 8X PCIe in speeds) so it's comparable. If you want to go with newer cards, and if you want any life expectancy for your mobo... find something with real 16X PCIe... happily 2 16X slots.
yet another reason you should avoid the barebone.
What are you running for a PC right now? If the case is ATX standard, then shit, just reuse that case and buy a good PSU and mobo to slap in the bastard. This way you can add on the bells and whistles a quality mobo gets you, and usually don't come in barebones. Really as a rule of thumb in my book, barebones are for general use low bargain PCs... you know, email buckets and the sort for your mom and dad. If you want any kind of gaming life, a real mobo is necessary... it's like the spinal cord/nervous system of your computer... get something that doesn't break the first time you body slam it with an intense game.
the barebone kit on the other hand. Crap power supply, and that chipset is a bit sub par. You may want to look into a newer mobo with a better chipset. The 405 is a bit outdated and doesn't really handle dual core all the best in the world. (this is also why your getting the crap PCI-E speed off of it, it's very outdated... basically it has a secondary controller chip running in tandem with it to add these extra features. NOT GOOD!)
I have no complaints with the RAM... I could get into technicalities and the sort, but your going for price... and really for an "affordable" PC, RAM that works is RAM that works... latency isn't high on your list of priorities.
As for video card options. Well, for lower end vid cards with an 8X PCIe port you probably won't notice any freakin' difference. i.e. anything in the early 7 series from GeForce and earlier. These things were made with AGP in mind that maxed out at 8X AGP (similar to 8X PCIe in speeds) so it's comparable. If you want to go with newer cards, and if you want any life expectancy for your mobo... find something with real 16X PCIe... happily 2 16X slots.
yet another reason you should avoid the barebone.
What are you running for a PC right now? If the case is ATX standard, then shit, just reuse that case and buy a good PSU and mobo to slap in the bastard. This way you can add on the bells and whistles a quality mobo gets you, and usually don't come in barebones. Really as a rule of thumb in my book, barebones are for general use low bargain PCs... you know, email buckets and the sort for your mom and dad. If you want any kind of gaming life, a real mobo is necessary... it's like the spinal cord/nervous system of your computer... get something that doesn't break the first time you body slam it with an intense game.
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lordofduct
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You said you'd like a 7600GT and I'm selling one right here: http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3343
I used it to play ALL the Source games at 1280x1024. All settings maxed except for AA and AF which were either off or slightly on, and all the source games would run 45fps and up, even DODS with HDR. I'm selling it real cheap with a superior Zalman cooler. On your machine, it will run even better because your CPU and RAM will beat what I was using with this card.
I'd also like to point out that the 8600GT is practically 1-2% more powerful than the 7600GT. Look at benchmarks for yourself. It's not worth the price. You also don't want the 8600GT for DX10 because DX10 requires Vista, and honestly you should stay the fuck away from Vista for a few more years. Also, even if you were running in DX10, DX10 creates such a massive performance penalty for such a minor visual improvement, that the 8600GT won't even run DX10 smooth enough on most configurations to warrant it. Trust me. I spent dozens of hours doing a little detective work before making my decision.
I used it to play ALL the Source games at 1280x1024. All settings maxed except for AA and AF which were either off or slightly on, and all the source games would run 45fps and up, even DODS with HDR. I'm selling it real cheap with a superior Zalman cooler. On your machine, it will run even better because your CPU and RAM will beat what I was using with this card.
I'd also like to point out that the 8600GT is practically 1-2% more powerful than the 7600GT. Look at benchmarks for yourself. It's not worth the price. You also don't want the 8600GT for DX10 because DX10 requires Vista, and honestly you should stay the fuck away from Vista for a few more years. Also, even if you were running in DX10, DX10 creates such a massive performance penalty for such a minor visual improvement, that the 8600GT won't even run DX10 smooth enough on most configurations to warrant it. Trust me. I spent dozens of hours doing a little detective work before making my decision.
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lordofduct
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I use Vista in my bedroom...
heh. It actually isn't that bad. I haven't had any problems with it at all. All the games I want to play work, even emulators and other stuff. The only game to give me a problem was 'Phantasy Star Universe'... it was a firewall issue that was common with the game... only problem was no one had information on how to fix it in Vista as no one had it. I did get it to work though after about an hour of tinkering. Crap game.
But yeah, Directx10 isn't all that amazing... and I don't think there is a game out there that actually utilizes it yet. Maybe that Shadowrun game (which I know is Vista only) but then again... it might just be Vista only, not directx10... eh, not sure.
Im afraid that using the old case is a no go. Old system:933mhz Pentium 3, 512mb ram(the max the mother board can hold), and a fx5500 256mb overclocked like mad. This old junky box has treted me well for the past 6 years for downloading isos, music and movie files, and burning all previously said. It can also emulate the hell out of some ps1 games, and I was a Quake 3/UT fanatic for the first years of its life. This thing is LITERALLY falling apart.....
I guess this is so much of an upgrade to me that I dont really care about the motherboard being outdated. The psu on the other hand does. Do you really think this thing will go out pretty quick? I have a feeling I will still get it and just replace the psu with a good one if it ever goes out. This is mostly going to be used for media and everyday computer uses, and playing some pretty cool games of yesteryear is a nice bonus.
Thanks for clearing up my video card dispute. I had no idea that a 7600 was that fast(I am VERY out of date.) Do you think I could get bioshock running on the low settings? Also, do you think it would be possible to get a 7600 running on a 300 watt psu? The cpu is low power(only 65w). The reason I ask is because THIS kit: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6856167010, has its pci-express running at 16x and is $15 cheaper(as you can see, I am the BIGGEST tightwad in the world.) If I can get away with 300w, I will totally do it.
PS: I hope that card is still up for grabs later on, as the Video will have to come on a different payday.
Thanks guys!!!
I guess this is so much of an upgrade to me that I dont really care about the motherboard being outdated. The psu on the other hand does. Do you really think this thing will go out pretty quick? I have a feeling I will still get it and just replace the psu with a good one if it ever goes out. This is mostly going to be used for media and everyday computer uses, and playing some pretty cool games of yesteryear is a nice bonus.
Thanks for clearing up my video card dispute. I had no idea that a 7600 was that fast(I am VERY out of date.) Do you think I could get bioshock running on the low settings? Also, do you think it would be possible to get a 7600 running on a 300 watt psu? The cpu is low power(only 65w). The reason I ask is because THIS kit: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6856167010, has its pci-express running at 16x and is $15 cheaper(as you can see, I am the BIGGEST tightwad in the world.) If I can get away with 300w, I will totally do it.
PS: I hope that card is still up for grabs later on, as the Video will have to come on a different payday.
Thanks guys!!!
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lordofduct
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which kit... that link is to a page filled with different MSI barebone's.
EDIT: found it... I'm assuming it is this one ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6856167010 )
well that is a switch over to a VIA chipset. They aren't that bad at chipsets, especially for the bargain shopper. It doesn't offer you the major bells and whistles that intel or nforce offers. I used to always buy VIA chipsets for their price point before (as well as MSI, I like their products a lot). You better look into a vid card real fast though because the VIA chrome9 onboard video is just gimp as all hell.
EDIT: found it... I'm assuming it is this one ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6856167010 )
well that is a switch over to a VIA chipset. They aren't that bad at chipsets, especially for the bargain shopper. It doesn't offer you the major bells and whistles that intel or nforce offers. I used to always buy VIA chipsets for their price point before (as well as MSI, I like their products a lot). You better look into a vid card real fast though because the VIA chrome9 onboard video is just gimp as all hell.
If you're going for ultra-cheap your setup is OK. But if you're going for for future proofing, or even that 8600GT, you probably can't go ultra-cheap. The 8600GT, for example, requires a 16X PCIe slot, and that barebones says 1 x PCI-Express x16 (run at x8 mode). And who makes that power supply? Is it any good or is it whatever they had sitting around that day? We don't know and that's pretty important nowadays.
And I doubt you're going to get away with much if any overclocking, but you never know.
I recommend manually buying a case/power supply/mobo separately. It'll probably cost a bit more and will involve more research before you buy it and more assembly afterward but you'll know exactly what you're getting and can get exactly what you need. Really, though, it depends on what you want. Some of that dual-core goodness will probably be wasted on that motherboard and you won't be able to do much upgrading. On the other hand it's $300. I paid $1100 for mine also ordering from Newegg. So we clearly want different things from our computers.
EDIT: A quick check says the 7600 needs a 400W power supply.
And I doubt you're going to get away with much if any overclocking, but you never know.
I recommend manually buying a case/power supply/mobo separately. It'll probably cost a bit more and will involve more research before you buy it and more assembly afterward but you'll know exactly what you're getting and can get exactly what you need. Really, though, it depends on what you want. Some of that dual-core goodness will probably be wasted on that motherboard and you won't be able to do much upgrading. On the other hand it's $300. I paid $1100 for mine also ordering from Newegg. So we clearly want different things from our computers.
EDIT: A quick check says the 7600 needs a 400W power supply.
I think the requirements of the 7600 were written before the dual core cpus came out(as they have much lower power consumption). According to this: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000662.html , the 7600gt only uses 36 watts under a full load. With the cpu thats only 101 watts. How much does running 1 HDD, DVD burner and the MOBO take? Anyway Im on lunch so I better run, but once again thanks guys!!
If you feel fairly positive that you'll buy my 7600GT, I'll refrain from posting it on ebay for a few weeks. Just let me know. I have no idea what power the 7600 uses, but I imagine it's respectable.
The 7600GT however probably isn't what you want for Bioshock. Paired with that 3700 single core, it wasn't able to play it except on 800x600 low settings. Once I got the 4200 dual core, it became playable at 1280x1024 just barely. Then I got the x1950XT and it's playable at high settings at 1280. Bioshock is not that optimized of an engine like Source is. It requires such awesome hardware to work with.
Let me say something about PSUs. Ignore the Watts. Watts dont mean shit. Any supplier can put any amount of watts on any unit nowadays. What you need to look for are healthy amp ratings on the 3 lines, mostly 12v lines. Look for a PSU with dual 12v lines, each with at least 19A for your setup. If you get a triple 12v line unit, you can get away with a little less on the 12v. Remember that when using shitty PSUs, you are putting your hardware at risk, not just limiting it or causing glitches. Many people tell me you can permanently damage your components. Just be careful. Antec is always a good brand.
The 7600GT however probably isn't what you want for Bioshock. Paired with that 3700 single core, it wasn't able to play it except on 800x600 low settings. Once I got the 4200 dual core, it became playable at 1280x1024 just barely. Then I got the x1950XT and it's playable at high settings at 1280. Bioshock is not that optimized of an engine like Source is. It requires such awesome hardware to work with.
Let me say something about PSUs. Ignore the Watts. Watts dont mean shit. Any supplier can put any amount of watts on any unit nowadays. What you need to look for are healthy amp ratings on the 3 lines, mostly 12v lines. Look for a PSU with dual 12v lines, each with at least 19A for your setup. If you get a triple 12v line unit, you can get away with a little less on the 12v. Remember that when using shitty PSUs, you are putting your hardware at risk, not just limiting it or causing glitches. Many people tell me you can permanently damage your components. Just be careful. Antec is always a good brand.