wanting to learn japanese...where to get started?

[HungryGarou]

For many years I've always wanted to learn Japanese, but i just never really got serious about it. I'm really into playing Japanese imports, but I'm tired of being limited to the "import friendly" titles. Even with those kind of imports, i want to actually read the dialouge, and not just skip over it.

I'm pretty much a purist for the most part and i always tend to get annoyed when many video games form japan tend to get heavily westernized, Anglicized, or just plain hacked to pieces, all for the sake of trying to appeal to a wide, western audience.

For example, i love watching Game Center CX, and was excited about it's DS game, and even MORE excited when it came stateside...only to be dissapointed when i read an interview with Xseed that they were removing references to the original show, and fixing it up to make the retro gaming aspect more relateable to what the typical Western gamer grew up with. (I'm more into the nostalgic Japanese side of retro-gaming) I know it sounds pretty trivial to be annoyed by those things, and some may argue "just be happy you're getting it at all!" but I'm tired of the publisher deciding what's best for me.

I'm also tired of being the "As long as i can read it, i don't care what they do to it" kind of guy. Niche publishers and fan translations can only do so much for me.

So to anyone who knows Japanese at all, what do you suggest? I'm looking at some self learning books, flash cards and Rosetta Stone. I would take a college course, but can't find any in my area that offer Japanese. some times i just kick myself for not doing this years ago.

[molotovwars]

University courses are definitely the way to go. Unfortunately you said you weren't able to find any (was that at community colleges?). They may be more expensive at Universities but I'd say they are worth the cost, especially if you are passionate about learning. I took Japanese during University (I actually took it a school different from my own due to a co-op program) but wasn't serious enough and was ultimately held back by the kanji. I'm studying Korean now (in Korea) and I've learned very very quickly. Part of it is being here, but I study a lot more and because I am usually ahead of the textbook I am always able to utilize the class time to ask additional questions pertaining to my own interests to the teacher.

If you study alone, try to make sure your textbooks are in all Japanese right from the beginning. Learn to read hiragana and katakana and get a textbook that is presented in Japanese instead of in romanji. The textbooks at my University were great, but it was all romanized and I never learned how to read well enough (there was a separate book for reading).

Second, for games you will need to learn a lot of Kanji. Start that early and familiarize yourself with a dictionary or online website to be able to look them up easily. Korean has an alphabet and because I can read everything it makes learning sooo much faster, even just as simple as being able to send text messages.

Lastly, it will take a long time. Languages take a long time even just for conversational level, but games cover so many odd, diverse topics that require so much more knowledge. Others can weigh in on the situation, but as far as learning a language I also really recommended writing a journal everyday in that language. That will give you more practice and will teach you what you want to learn how to say.

[fingersmaloy]

All of molotov's advice is really good. If your main motivation for learning is to be able to play Japanese games, then kanji is all the more important, since it'll be mostly reading. Get yourself a simple kanji book that has 2000+ kanji and is easy for you to use. I used this for many years:

There's more rhyme and reason to how kanji work than it may seem at first, but it does take time to learn them, since there's so damn many of them, and many of them are similar to others.

It sounds like you're already into a lot of Japanese stuff, which will help tremendously. Absorb as much Japanese as you can. If there's text on something, read it, try to understand it. When you're watching something with Japanese dialog, try to listen. Try watching something with subtitles and then watching it again without. Be an active listener. Japanese music helped me a lot with pronunciation, and also subliminally introduced a whole lot of words to me so that when I studied them "officially" later on, memorizing them was as simple as remembering a song in which I had heard them.

Here's the textbook that started off my obsession with the language:

I found it very enthralling and easy to use. It gets you off roma-ji by the third chapter or so, and in general offers a very organic learning experience. Learn by doing.

Best of luck to you!

P.S. You can PM me if you have specific questions or stuff.

[Anayo]

I am by no means fluent in Japanese, but I know some. I posted a topic earlier about why the kanji are so difficult to read. Click the link below.

http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=17924

I took no classes whatsoever. I basically learned like this:

I read "Japanese Verbs: Saying What you Mean" cover to cover and memorized most of it.
I did Rosetta Stone Japanese level 1 and maybe half of level 2.
I memorized Hiragana and Katakana on my own.
I did Bonjinsha basic kanji volumes 1 and 2 for my first 500 kanji.
I read Break Through Japanese: 20 Mini Lessons for Better Conversation to learn some more nuances.
I used a Japanese kids book called "Sannensei manga kanji jiten" to learn 50 or so more kanji.
I used an online dictionary to learn 50 more.

Now I can sort of read and speak at maybe a child's level. But I'm still at an extreme disadvantage without any patient fluent people to coach me. You will never become totally fluent unless you just live there for a year or two.

[D.D.D.]

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[Breetai]

Want my advice? It's simple. No matter how many post you make asking for advice, how many pieces of advice you read, how many language learning theories you look at; NONE OF IT IS USEFUL unless you get off your lazy ass and start studying.

What are you doing now to study Japanese? Get off your ass and get to it. Don't have a text yet? It doesn't matter. Download kana charts off the 'net and learn your kana NOW. Not in a hour. Do it now as you surf the internet. I want you back here in TWO WEEKS saying that you can read kana without having to look at a reference chart. While that two weeks is on, beginner textbooks should already be in the mail on their way to your house. Get some with CDs so you can get an idea of how spoken Japanese is. Download shows like Sazae-san or Chibi Maruko-chan (yup, it's pretty rude Japanese... but it's the listening that we're going for here) and watch them without any sub-titles. Even if you don't understand anything, you will start to figure things out naturally.

Set aside an hour or two each day for study and don't screw it up.

Also, don't worry too much about kanji for awhile. It will come bit by bit. Don't ignore it, but also don't worry too much about it at first. Get the other basics down first.

[Breetai]

You will never become totally fluent unless you just live there for a year or two.

I know NOBODY who became totally fluent after being here for a year or two. NOBODY. Conversational, yes. Fluent, no.

[Inazuma]

Or do what I did. Jump straight into a Japanese MMO and put all of your free time into playing it. You will be forced to learn Japanese if you want to be able to communicate and play with other people. I kept that up for 5 years and became fluent. I also watched raw anime while I ate food. Good luck.

[Breetai]

Or do what I did. Jump straight into a Japanese MMO and put all of your free time into playing it. You will be forced to learn Japanese if you want to be able to communicate and play with other people. I kept that up for 5 years and became fluent. I also watched raw anime while I ate food. Good luck.

Your story amazes the heck out of me. I'm in awe, to be honest.

Still, what do you consider fluent? Conversational I guess? I hear different definitions of that word all the time. Maybe I've been in Japan too long?

[Niode]

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Holy crap, a fleeting visit from D.D.D. I hope he comes back! I miss his posts from back in the day...