Does the hunt on piracy piss off anyone else here?

[Luke]

I figured as much Luke. Now all those future novels where corporations run the governments fully doesnt seem all that out of reach.

DwayneWait-aminute.

What are we delving into now? I'm not suggesting that corporations rule all, I just think it's silly that drunk drivers who murder people get off the hook pretty lightly.

[Limewater]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp. ... udios,_Inc.

It's not different. The problem is that you can't enforce when you are recording for time-shifting and when you are recording for other matters.

Your link isn't wanting to work (at least in firefox) due to the punctuation at the end of the URL. Let's see if this works any better:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp. ... dios,_Inc.


But no, there really are several differences between recording a television show or taping a song off the radio and file sharing.

1. Fair Use. In both the television and radio examples, you are getting the content from a legitimate, licensed source. Any necessary licensing fees have been paid and agreements have been made for these means of distribution. The same is not true of Manny's MP3 Jungle or whatever.

2. Quality. Broadcast radio quality is inferior to CD. Broadcast television quality is inferior to DVD/BluRay. Analog and digital recording of shows or songs off the radio degrade the quality further. Also, radio stations have DJs talk over or play promos during the beginning and end of songs to discourage taping. Additionally, if recordings are being made in analog media, making copies further degrades the quality. With digital file sharing, I can get a digital recording identical to that found in the original media, and I can reproduce it as many times as I want with zero degradation.

3. Ease. Pirates of movies, music, and television used to not be severely persecuted because the inconvenience and amount of work required for piracy created a barrier for entry that kept the scene pretty small. Now, any kid with a computer and internet connection can pirate just about any media he wants in less than two minutes of googling. The problem is now more widespread and is having a much larger impact on the entertainment industry.

[Limewater]

DwayneWait-aminute.

What are we delving into now? I'm not suggesting that corporations rule all, I just think it's silly that drunk drivers who murder people get off the hook pretty lightly.

What about the people who drive drunk and don't kill anyone?

[Luke]

What about the people who drive drunk and don't kill anyone?

They are also assholes.

[Limewater]

What about the people who drive drunk and don't kill anyone?

They are also assholes.

Sure, but that doesn't really answer my question. You said that drunk drivers who kill someone get off too light. What about drunk drivers who don't kill anyone? What should be the punishment for drunk driving?

[Luke]

Sure, but that doesn't really answer my question. You said that drunk drivers who kill someone get off too light. What about drunk drivers who don't kill anyone? What should be the punishment for drunk driving?

Your question was, word for word: "What about the people who drive drunk and don't kill anyone?".

You didn't ask a question about punishment.

I responded that they are also assholes. Which, they are.

[Limewater]

Your question was, word for word: "What about the people who drive drunk and don't kill anyone?".

You didn't ask a question about punishment.

I responded that they are also assholes. Which, they are.

No, you're right. My question wasn't very clear. I started to comment on it myself in my last post, but I guess I deleted that part before sending. Instead I just attempted to clarify my question in the last post. But I take it from this response that you aren't really going to answer that one.

[Niode]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp. ... udios,_Inc.

It's not different. The problem is that you can't enforce when you are recording for time-shifting and when you are recording for other matters.

Your link isn't wanting to work (at least in firefox) due to the punctuation at the end of the URL. Let's see if this works any better:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp. ... dios,_Inc.


But no, there really are several differences between recording a television show or taping a song off the radio and file sharing.

1. Fair Use. In both the television and radio examples, you are getting the content from a legitimate, licensed source. Any necessary licensing fees have been paid and agreements have been made for these means of distribution. The same is not true of Manny's MP3 Jungle or whatever.

2. Quality. Broadcast radio quality is inferior to CD. Broadcast television quality is inferior to DVD/BluRay. Analog and digital recording of shows or songs off the radio degrade the quality further. Also, radio stations have DJs talk over or play promos during the beginning and end of songs to discourage taping. Additionally, if recordings are being made in analog media, making copies further degrades the quality. With digital file sharing, I can get a digital recording identical to that found in the original media, and I can reproduce it as many times as I want with zero degradation.

3. Ease. Pirates of movies, music, and television used to not be severely persecuted because the inconvenience and amount of work required for piracy created a barrier for entry that kept the scene pretty small. Now, any kid with a computer and internet connection can pirate just about any media he wants in less than two minutes of googling. The problem is now more widespread and is having a much larger impact on the entertainment industry.

Your quality argument doesn't make sense. I can record HD quality streams from my FreesatHD with built in HDD recorder which are better than DVD. I can also copy that data as many times as I want without degradation. These devices are sold legally and can be used as such. Regarding fair use, I don't see anywhere that says it's illegal to record the output from an internet radio station.

What I'm trying to get at is there's very little difference between a file recorded off of a radio station and an mp3 recorded off a disc. I find it quite bizarre that the legality of such a transmission of data lies not in the content but rather the means in which it is transferred?

Please don't read my posts as an outward attack against anyone.

[Limewater]

Your quality argument doesn't make sense. I can record HD quality streams from my FreesatHD with built in HDD recorder which are better than DVD. I can also copy that data as many times as I want without degradation.

Sort of. I was primarily referring to historical differences. Back in the days of whats-its-face versus whos-its-name (the case above), the quality of the recordings and degradation of further copies were considered as part of the argument for permissiveness.

Copyright laws are also different in the UK than the US anyway, so we're probably talking past each other.

But, regarding quality, your HD recordings may be superior to DVD, but would be inferior to BluRay.

Also, I don't know how it is in the UK, but I'm not sure that unencrypted DVRs are available in the United States, preventing sharing. It was a big deal when they first came out, and I believe that encryption is legally required. I could be wrong about the legal requirement, though.

But even if you legitimately get a perfect copy of some programming, you still don't have license to distribute it. That's where the violation comes from.

These devices are sold legally and can be used as such. Regarding fair use, I don't see anywhere that says it's illegal to record the output from an internet radio station.

I think there are methods of recording the output of an internet radio station that are legal-- but I don't think there are any legal means that don't involve the sound being converted to analog first and then being resampled and encoded, causing a loss in quality.

What I'm trying to get at is there's very little difference between a file recorded off of a radio station and an mp3 recorded off a disc. I find it quite bizarre that the legality of such a transmission of data lies not in the content but rather the means in which it is transferred?

Actually, if you record off of an internet radio station through legal methods, there would be a significant difference in the files. But I don't understand your point here. Is it illegal to rip MP3s from a CD in the UK?

But the difference is that broadcasters pay a licensing fee and have permission to publicly transmit the information (music or video). If you buy a CD, you have a license for personal use. You don't have a license to burn a hundred copies for your friends. I don't see what's weird about that.

Also, for what it's worth, some bands really do make money off of album sales. You can usually spot them because they were the ones who got pissed off about Napster. If a band isn't making money off of their album, it's not surprising that they wouldn't care about file sharing.

[Luke]

Your question was, word for word: "What about the people who drive drunk and don't kill anyone?".

You didn't ask a question about punishment.

I responded that they are also assholes. Which, they are.

No, you're right. My question wasn't very clear. I started to comment on it myself in my last post, but I guess I deleted that part before sending. Instead I just attempted to clarify my question in the last post. But I take it from this response that you aren't really going to answer that one.

Understood.

Sorry if I sounded like a jerk with my last post. After re-reading my own post, it sounded pretty snarky. That wasn't my intent.

To answer your question, I wish I had a solid answer. I'm not sure what to do about drunk drivers. I doubt the majority get caught, and with the right lawyer, most get off with the only penalty being having to pay their lawyer. In my ideal world, first time offenders lose their license for a few months. Repeat offenders would have either their license taken away permanently, or have one of those BAC doo-hickey machines where they have to be sober to drive (although anyone could probably breath for them).

More on this later, business lunch time. Yay free sushi!