I'm sooo not ready for kids...

[Luke]

Here's an article with some references.

I'm a little worried myself here. My GF, who I've been living with for 4 years has an 8 year old daughter. The daughter has been living with her father and his mother, and we go visit her once a month or so. Until recently, this has worked out well. But her grandmother has broken up with her husband and moved out into a tiny apartment with her son and other grandchild. I get the feeling I'm going to be asked if the daughter can come live here in the near future.

Of course, that would mean no more smoking pot in the living room. No more sex in the afternoon. Having to wear pants to breakfast. Having to find babysitters before concerts. Having to teach that kid to use her inside voice. It's not going to be fun.

Thanks for the link, and I fixed that for ya!

[Hatta]

There's a PDF of one of Robin Simon's articles here. From the conclusions:

In contrast to some earlier research, our analy-ses indicate that as a group parents report sig-nificantly higher levels of depression than nonparents when sociodemographic and status variables are held constant. We noted that incon-sistencies between our and othersífindings prob-ably reflect the relatively high percentage of single, noncustodial, cohabiting, and steppar-ents in this relatively recent national sample. Moreover, and consistent with other research, we found that persons at the stage of the life course when they are residing with their minor children report significantly more depression than their childless peers when sociodemo-graphic and status variables are included in analyses. We concur with other authors (e.g., Umberson and Gove 1989; McLanahan and Adams 1985) that the emotional demands of parenthood at this stage of the life course may simply outweigh the emotional rewards of having children. However, we also found that emptynest parents do not significantly differ from persons who have never had children, even when sociodemographic and status characteris-tics are controlled, which suggests that there are no emotional benefits associated with emptynest parenthood with respect to current depression.

While it is inconsistent with some previous studies, our finding for emptynest parents is not too surprising. Although the demands associ-ated with parenthood subside as children age and become independentófreeing parents to reap the rewards of having childrenómost parents are probably involved in their adult chil-drenís lives and continue to be concerned with their well-being, which can also be emotionally costly. In fact, one of our most interesting findings is that there is no type of parent that reports less depression than nonparents. Another interesting finding is that the association between all types of parenthoodórelative to not being a parentóand depression does not sig-nificantly differ for women and men. This finding contradicts assumptions about gender differences in the emotional consequences of parenthoodóa point to which we will return.

Overall, the first set of analyses provides support for our first hypothesis: Unlike other major adult roles in the United States, parenthood is not asso-ciated with enhanced emotional well-being.

Not only did they find that having young children correlates with greater depression, having adult children does not correlate with less depression. In other words, there is no payoff at the end of the ordeal.

And no, no sarcasm was implied in my previous statement.

[ZeroAX]

and they call gamers antisocial beings. HUH

[s1mplehumar]

The night ended with my wife asking me if I valued material objects over a child, to which I replied, "Yes, as a matter of fact I do." Doghouse!

I don't even see how this is a legitimate question. Wanting to take care of your possessions doesn't mean you value them more than the child. Children need to know they're boundaries and how to respect your stuff.

That's what I thought! We were both just blowing off steam at the time. My wife and I are still at odds with the situation. She thinks I'm mental for even thinking about approaching her friend about the TV, but still feels my pain in regards to the money spent on the TV.

[MrPopo]

There's a PDF of one of Robin Simon's articles here. From the conclusions:

-snip-

Not only did they find that having young children correlates with greater depression, having adult children does not correlate with less depression. In other words, there is no payoff at the end of the ordeal.

And no, no sarcasm was implied in my previous statement.

This result doesn't shock me. Nor does it deter me from my own desire to have children.

[SplashChick]

Hope you can get this cleared up without losing a friend. Just remember that if they don't cover the damage they caused, they're not very good people to have as friends anyway.

But yeah, I'm with you. Kids are far too much trouble than they're worth. Expensive as shit, demanding of time and emotional resources, and what do you get in return? Nothing. All the research I've seen indicates that non-parents are happier than parents, which makes sense they're a lot less stressed.

Kids are an investment. Really worth it when you are old and helpless and looking for a meaning in life .

Don't count on it, my parents and I are barely even on speaking terms.

[Inazuma]

It's like being fat. We don't need a study to tell us that healthy, thin people are generally more happy than unhealthy, fat people. You could show a fat person scientific studies explaining that he would be happier if he lost the weight, but it likely won't change him. Same thing with smoking, gambling, marriage, etc. Some people are unable to think logically. In their own personal fantasy world, they are making the right decision and get happiness from it. That may sound fine but eventually they have to face the harsh consequences of their actions. The fat, smoking, gambling married guy with children believes he is doing the right thing and life is good until he has a heart attack, lung cancer, loses money at the casino slot machine, loses money from the divorce and loses money from paying child support.

I think the main cause all of this illogical behavior is the inability to think for oneself. If someone shuts down all trains of thought and simply does what others have told them to do, they will end up fat, or be forced to pay child support. The average member of our society is a mindless idiot who makes bad decisions all the time.

The worst part is, instead of raising our children to think, we do the exact opposite! Those of you who know me, should know what I am referring to here.

tl;dr
Inazuma rants again, blah blah blah. We don't want to confront the truth. I wish he would shut up. I don't wanna be pulled out from my happy fantasy world of bullshit.

[Niode]

Inazuma, Money ≠ Happiness.

Good day.

[SplashChick]

You know, just as many guys want kids as girls do. It's just an overplayed stereotype.

[MrPopo]

You know, just as many guys want kids as girls do. It's just an overplayed stereotype.

Yup. As it turns out both sexes have a biological drive to propagate the species. Just remember, even though it's a funny show, Married With Children is NOT how every marriage goes down.