Inazuma wrote:I am aware there is no answer to my original question. I just find it fascinating how a totally meaningless rule could continue to survive.
As I said (and as Luke says), there are reasons to believe that cussing isn't bad, and that "ruling" some words to be "taboo" or socially unacceptable plays some role.
That study makes sense. Freedom feels good. Put restrictions on people and it will affect them in some way, such as causing them to be a little stressed out.
I never swear around family or hardly even at all. It's just not in my vocabulary. The only time I ever say a "bad word" is if I'm super mad from stubbing my toe or something. It just blurts out.
I think this topic and its replies can now be summarized as "No shit." No words are inherently offensive? No shit. Profanity is contextual? No shit. Words are defined by their intent? No shit.
Inazuma wrote:So much for trying to be nice to you, Luke. I'm surprised you got upset at that.
Of course people can get offended when there are no curse words used. I'll give you an example:
"Hey Black man. You are a filthy animal and deserved to be enslaved for the rest of your life."
No curse words used, yet it's highly offensive. The meaning of what someone says is what really matters, not the words themselves. Words are merely tools used to convey meaning after all.
Not upset at all Izzy, just wanted to make sure you knew what I said, not what you thought I was trying to say. No biggie. I guess I didn't make myself clear, and wanted to restate my opinion.
This topic is about cursing, not about trying to hurt someone. Don't know how this got derailed.
You still don't get it. You can use a curse word and not be saying something bad. Also, you can say something bad and never use a curse word. The words themselves are not what bothers people, it's the meaning.
Besides, truth does a much better job of offending people than curse words anyway
crux wrote:I think this topic and its replies can now be summarized as "No shit." No words are inherently offensive? No shit. Profanity is contextual? No shit. Words are defined by their intent? No shit.
crux wrote:I think this topic and its replies can now be summarized as "No shit." No words are inherently offensive? No shit. Profanity is contextual? No shit. Words are defined by their intent? No shit.
Agreed?
I know it seems like common sense to you and me but most people don't understand it. It's actually uncommon sense since most people think the curse word itself is bad, regardless of everything else.
"Fuck, I stubbed my toe." is worse than "I murdered 15 people last night because they were wearing shoes."
Inazuma wrote:So much for trying to be nice to you, Luke. I'm surprised you got upset at that.
Of course people can get offended when there are no curse words used. I'll give you an example:
"Hey Black man. You are a filthy animal and deserved to be enslaved for the rest of your life."
No curse words used, yet it's highly offensive. The meaning of what someone says is what really matters, not the words themselves. Words are merely tools used to convey meaning after all.
Not upset at all Izzy, just wanted to make sure you knew what I said, not what you thought I was trying to say. No biggie. I guess I didn't make myself clear, and wanted to restate my opinion.
This topic is about cursing, not about trying to hurt someone. Don't know how this got derailed.
You still don't get it. You can use a curse word and not be saying something bad. Also, you can say something bad and never use a curse word. The words themselves are not what bothers people, it's the meaning.
Besides, truth does a much better job of offending people than curse words anyway
I understand what Luke is saying. Sure, you can say something with no curse words at all and have it be extremely offensive. You can also say something that has curse words in it and it is not necessarily offensive at all. Luke is wondering if adding some curse words to that first scenario (the sentence that had no bad words, but was still offensive) would actually make it even MORE offensive, thus curse words are bad and when added to an already offensive phrase can make it worse.
I don't think this needs to be a separate argument, though, because it still comes down to the same idea - some people think curse words are offensive so of course adding them to a sentence, whether it is offensive or not, will make it offensive/more offensive. As for the second scenario, I think curse words have become so regular in our time that, for some, they are not considered offensive at all and don't tend to have any emotion attached to them. It comes down to the original question, why do some people find cursing offensive and others do not? So don't start arguing about this new topic just yet as it is just more of an example of the original topic
Inazuma wrote:I know it seems like common sense to you and me but most people don't understand it. It's actually uncommon sense since most people think the curse word itself is bad, regardless of everything else.
"Fuck, I stubbed my toe." is worse than "I murdered 15 people last night because they were wearing shoes."
Who here is implying that words aren't defined by their intent? The only thing anyone has said to contradict you is that words CAN have meanings applied to them even if it isn't the intent. They're called stigmas. Some people, for instance, consider profanity to be crass. Thus those same people will attach judgments of crassness to anyone who uses profanity. The weight of a word cannot be properly applied through a definition - it's we whom give words their charge and it's only we that can determine their offenses. Stigmas can't be wished away through good intentions.
crux wrote:I think this topic and its replies can now be summarized as "No shit." No words are inherently offensive? No shit. Profanity is contextual? No shit. Words are defined by their intent? No shit.
Agreed?
I know it seems like common sense to you and me but most people don't understand it. It's actually uncommon sense since most people think the curse word itself is bad, regardless of everything else.
"Fuck, I stubbed my toe." is worse than "I murdered 15 people last night because they were wearing shoes."
I don't really think I met anyone last night - no matter how pure, religious, proper, polite they are - who has ever though the first sentence is worse than the second just because their is a curse word in it. I know it is an extreme example, however, and I understand the point you are trying to get across. I think people have cursed for a VERY long time. It was not presented as such in media of the time, but it is documented that cursing became very common after soldiers returned from WWI. I assume it goes back even further. So, even someone in 1914 would probably find your second sentence worse than your first regardless of a curse word being present. Again, because movies or radio shows or books of the time were not necessarily littered with them - more of a writing style than a sign of how people actually acted - doesn't mean people were THAT obsessed with a bad word being in a neutral sentence that they would be less moved by an awful sentence with no bad words. I know when this country was first colonized by those escaping religious persecution there was probably a taboo against people who used bad words. I don't even think that feeling was normal throughout the rest of the world, just with this group of settlers because they were very religious.
I think by the 1900s cursing was pretty common in normal conversation between friends, while still not so common in public conversations unless a speaker really wanted to make an impact with what he was saying. Now cursing is becoming more and more common, so much so that most are desensitized to any impact a curse word would have. Most people would find no difference in a sentence whether a curse was used or not. Their reaction comes from what is being said and not necessarily how it is being said. Sorry my thoughts are disjointed, but the Flyers game is coming on and my wife is cooking a steak and I am suffering from sensory overload.
Inazuma wrote:You still don't get it. You can use a curse word and not be saying something bad. Also, you can say something bad and never use a curse word. The words themselves are not what bothers people, it's the meaning.
Whatever made you assume I didn't "get it"? I said I try not to curse around women and children. Again, I said nothing about bad words.
