Daigo jumps on the Street Fighter IV hate wagon

[Gamerforlife]

I haven't played SF IV, but after seeing it action, I had zero interest. It's just more Street Fighter. Seriously, it looks like the same game we've played a billion times. Same reason I wasn't excited about Mega Man 9, same reason I don't care about Tekken 6. Some franchises just don't seem to really evolve at all. Was there really any point in continuing SF beyond SF III?

How bout some new IPs Capcom?

[MrPopo]

I haven't played SF IV, but after seeing it action, I had zero interest. It's just more Street Fighter. Seriously, it looks like the same game we've played a billion times. Same reason I wasn't excited about Mega Man 9, same reason I don't care about Tekken 6. Some franchises just don't seem to really evolve at all. Was there really any point in continuing SF beyond SF III?

How bout some new IPs Capcom?

I bet you're one of those people who can't eat the same thing every day for lunch. The reason they don't make new IPs is people don't buy new IPs.

[Gamerforlife]

I haven't played SF IV, but after seeing it action, I had zero interest. It's just more Street Fighter. Seriously, it looks like the same game we've played a billion times. Same reason I wasn't excited about Mega Man 9, same reason I don't care about Tekken 6. Some franchises just don't seem to really evolve at all. Was there really any point in continuing SF beyond SF III?

How bout some new IPs Capcom?

I bet you're one of those people who can't eat the same thing every day for lunch. The reason they don't make new IPs is people don't buy new IPs.

Let's put things into perspective here. Street Fighter II was rehashed more times than I can count. Than there were all those other fighters that Capcom put out over the years that were variations on the SF formula. Then there was SNK, who pumped out more SF clones, then Capcom put out THREE versions of SF III. I'm just saying, how many times CAN we play Street Fighter before it gets old

We keep getting tweaks and little changes, but it's really just the same old thing. I was hoping that when I saw SF IV, I'd see the future of 2-d fighters, but I just saw more of the same. It's fun to go back and play some of the older classic 2-d fighters, but it's sad when the new ones seem no different.

[gradualmeltdown]

he's just salty he gets beat in Japan by top players now SF4 is what everyone is playing, thus it is what competitive players play. I think its fun, competitive, and garbage all at the same time. Still love playing.

The things he is complaining about don't really apply to most but are very true. Most players don't understand spacing well enough to understand the usage of FADC. Fully agree the throw mechanics are weak too. I bet these will be fixed in Super though. Hoping they mix up the game for a little more offense like he is saying. Right now its slow and defensive.

I just have to know what fighting game phenom SF4 was riding in his opinion. I guess its from a Japanese arcade gamers perspective.

[the7k]

Damn fucking straight. Street Fighter IV did feel like the "same old, same old" and it didn't really bring anything new to the table.

I'm also right there with him on hating the fact that the game is far too defense based. In most games, I can play as quick fighters and stand a chance, but this game kinda requires you to play as Zangief, Sagat, Ryu or some other behemoth that has no speed but a lot of defense.

The only thing I disagree with is that he believes the game is more balanced than past SF games - I personally feel that Alpha 2 is the most balanced.

I'll probably still get SSF4, but I sure as hell ain't paying full price for it or buying it new. Fool me once, shame on you...

[the7k]

Let's put things into perspective here. Street Fighter II was rehashed more times than I can count. Than there were all those other fighters that Capcom put out over the years that were variations on the SF formula. Then there was SNK, who pumped out more SF clones, then Capcom put out THREE versions of SF III. I'm just saying, how many times CAN we play Street Fighter before it gets old

We keep getting tweaks and little changes, but it's really just the same old thing. I was hoping that when I saw SF IV, I'd see the future of 2-d fighters, but I just saw more of the same. It's fun to go back and play some of the older classic 2-d fighters, but it's sad when the new ones seem no different.

Just because SNK made a bunch of 2D fighters doesn't mean they were SF clones. That's like saying Valve makes nothing but a bunch of Doom clones. There have been blatant Street Fighter clones, but they were usually made by Data East. "World Heroes" was dismissed by many as a Street Fighter clone, but the experience was much deeper than that.

Also, many of the non-SF fighters that Capcom made, such as Darkstalkers, Rival Schools, Cyberbots, etc., were a lot more than just 'variations on the SF formula'. Hell, Darkstalkers is the most clear inspiration for Arc System Works, one of Capcom's most visible rivals!

It does suck to see Capcom (and others) make minor tweaks and call it a day, but I can't see calling SFIII the same thing as SFII.

Now, SFIV does suffer from being way too much like SFII. The slower pace and the character roster does a lot to influence that (Hell, in the arcades, the character roster was exactly the same as SF2 except the Newcomers were replaced with New Newcomers). While it does take a few things from the Alpha and III series, such as EX moves and Supers, it didn't take the taste of SF2 out of my mouth.

It just didn't bring anything new to the table. Sure, there's the Focus Attack and Ultra Moves, but Focus Attacks are pretty much easy Parries (with much more holes than parries) and Ultra Moves are just free Supers (that do more damage) for getting the shit kicked out of you.

My current problem with the Revenge Meter is that it's only used for one thing - Ultras. The Super meter, on the other hand, is used for Supers, EX moves and Focus Cancels. And yet, Super moves often do a lot less damage than Ultra moves. Shouldn't it do more? You have to give up using EX and Focus Cancels if you want to do a Super, and yet you give up nothing to do an Ultra. It just seems ass backwards to me.

I personally think you should be able to use the Revenge Meter to do offensive version of Focus Attacks. Currently, FAs require you to charge it for a good minute to be unblockable - what if you could sacrifice a portion of your Revenge to do an unblockable, instantaneous Focus Attack? Just a thought - I dunno if this would ruin things, but SF4 does need more options for dealing with defensive players.

An offensive FA might finally do something about all those charge character turtlers who just hold back+down the whole time. Wanna throw them? You can't - they're ducking. Wanna use an unblockable Focus Attack? You can't - they'll just use their Focus Breaker while your charging. Wanna air attack? You can't - they'll just use whatever variation of the Flash Kick they have. All you can really do is wear them down with chip damage, or try to fake them into attacking while you block. KOF solved this problem long ago with hopping - where the hell is Street Fighter's solution?

[elvis]

I haven't played SF IV, but after seeing it action, I had zero interest. It's just more Street Fighter.

I have to disagree there. There are differences - not huge ones, but differences all the same - that set it apart from previous Street Fighter titles.

The entire save attack system in particular changes the game entirely - much like the parry did for SF3.

To the casual player, or even at face value, yes it's "more of the same". But the same could be said for any fighting game series - Tekken, Soul Calibur, Guilty Gear, King of Fighters, etc - all of these series have gone through tweaks over the years designed entirely for the fanbase. Casual players all say the same thing - more of the same. But those who know the games inside out know different.

With that said, if you didn't really like Street Fighter to begin with, then you won't like SF4. But as Ack pointed out - continuing old IP makes people confident that they'll like the new titles. New IP is risky, and honestly I struggle to see a fighting game franchise that's had half the impact of Street Fighter in the last 10 years.

he's just salty he gets beat in Japan by top players now

Heh.

It is slightly unsurprising that "The Beast" doesn't like a game that's biased towards defensive players. Daigo's bread and butter is rushdown and quick reflexes, neither of which help him much in SF4.

[Gamerforlife]

Let's put things into perspective here. Street Fighter II was rehashed more times than I can count. Than there were all those other fighters that Capcom put out over the years that were variations on the SF formula. Then there was SNK, who pumped out more SF clones, then Capcom put out THREE versions of SF III. I'm just saying, how many times CAN we play Street Fighter before it gets old

We keep getting tweaks and little changes, but it's really just the same old thing. I was hoping that when I saw SF IV, I'd see the future of 2-d fighters, but I just saw more of the same. It's fun to go back and play some of the older classic 2-d fighters, but it's sad when the new ones seem no different.

Just because SNK made a bunch of 2D fighters doesn't mean they were SF clones. That's like saying Valve makes nothing but a bunch of Doom clones. There have been blatant Street Fighter clones, but they were usually made by Data East. "World Heroes" was dismissed by many as a Street Fighter clone, but the experience was much deeper than that.

Also, many of the non-SF fighters that Capcom made, such as Darkstalkers, Rival Schools, Cyberbots, etc., were a lot more than just 'variations on the SF formula'. Hell, Darkstalkers is the most clear inspiration for Arc System Works, one of Capcom's most visible rivals!

It does suck to see Capcom (and others) make minor tweaks and call it a day, but I can't see calling SFIII the same thing as SFII.

Now, SFIV does suffer from being way too much like SFII. The slower pace and the character roster does a lot to influence that (Hell, in the arcades, the character roster was exactly the same as SF2 except the Newcomers were replaced with New Newcomers). While it does take a few things from the Alpha and III series, such as EX moves and Supers, it didn't take the taste of SF2 out of my mouth.

It just didn't bring anything new to the table. Sure, there's the Focus Attack and Ultra Moves, but Focus Attacks are pretty much easy Parries (with much more holes than parries) and Ultra Moves are just free Supers (that do more damage) for getting the shit kicked out of you.

My current problem with the Revenge Meter is that it's only used for one thing - Ultras. The Super meter, on the other hand, is used for Supers, EX moves and Focus Cancels. And yet, Super moves often do a lot less damage than Ultra moves. Shouldn't it do more? You have to give up using EX and Focus Cancels if you want to do a Super, and yet you give up nothing to do an Ultra. It just seems ass backwards to me.

I personally think you should be able to use the Revenge Meter to do offensive version of Focus Attacks. Currently, FAs require you to charge it for a good minute to be unblockable - what if you could sacrifice a portion of your Revenge to do an unblockable, instantaneous Focus Attack? Just a thought - I dunno if this would ruin things, but SF4 does need more options for dealing with defensive players.

An offensive FA might finally do something about all those charge character turtlers who just hold back+down the whole time. Wanna throw them? You can't - they're ducking. Wanna use an unblockable Focus Attack? You can't - they'll just use their Focus Breaker while your charging. Wanna air attack? You can't - they'll just use whatever variation of the Flash Kick they have. All you can really do is wear them down with chip damage, or try to fake them into attacking while you block. KOF solved this problem long ago with hopping - where the hell is Street Fighter's solution?

Okay, all of the games I mentioned aren't EXACT clones of Street Fighter II, but at least we can agree that SF IV does bring little new to the table and after the TONS of 2-d fighters we have seen in like the past twenty years, that is unacceptable. That was sort of my point. I have played a lot of 2-d fighters over the years, but I got burned out on them after awhile and SF IV does little to change that.

[J T]

SFIV did a few things right

They took Street Fighter online.
They made Street Fighter 3D without trying to be Virtua Fighter, Tekken, or Soul Calibur.
They added force attacks.
They largely balanced the gameplay, except Sagat is way to strong.
They made Dan extra cheesy and a bit weaker, but with extra taunts, which makes him really fun to win with.

I have criticisms of the game too, but it is the most fun I've had with a fighting game since SFIII.

[HellHammer]

SFIV did a few things right

They took Street Fighter online.
They made Street Fighter 3D without trying to be Virtua Fighter, Tekken, or Soul Calibur.
They added force attacks.
They largely balanced the gameplay, except Sagat is way to strong.
They made Dan extra cheesy and a bit weaker, but with extra taunts, which makes him really fun to win with.

I have criticisms of the game too, but it is the most fun I've had with a fighting game since SFIII.

I disagree. I feel like SFIV did very little.

SFIII had online, which also had lag issues...probably the worst possible thing for a fighting game.
Street Fighter EX? SFIV isn't a 3D fighter.
Force attacks are nice, but I can't help but feel like it's Capcom's attempt at making 'not a parry'.
Balanced gameplay? Goodluck, if you're a Vega fan.
Dan is always cheese.