Piracy is not so bad

[vash23n]

They put DRM software in Spore?

Anyhoo... don't most consoles have restrictive measures placed on them so that only licensed games can be played on them or that only specific regions can be played on them? We all still play them, including those who are arguing against DRM and there are probably a lot of people opposed to piracy that have unlocked their systems in one way or another to play them.

[zarathstra]

So what you're saying is that you took something without paying for it, but that's okay, because you were never planning to pay for it in the first place?

People think of digital information differently from physical objects because its so easy to make a copy, but you wouldn't take anyone seriously if they claimed that stealing a diamond ring wasn't wrong because they were never planning to buy one in the first place, would you? That is your defense, in a nutshell.

If you don't buy something, or borrow it temporarily, or have it given to you, then you don't get to use it and remain on the moral high ground.

I must sound like a broken record. If you are harming others, it's wrong. Stealing a diamond ring will always harm others because they won't have their diamond ring anymore. Your intentions or desire to purchase the ring legitly or not cannot change that.

If piracy ends up hurting someone, however that may be, then it is wrong. All I am saying is, given the right situation, it is possible for piracy to exist and not be harming anyone. Only in that case, would it be ok.

They put up gobs of money to produce the game, and now you have it, and they have nothing to show for it. I guess I just don't see much of a difference.

[Inazuma]

So what you're saying is that you took something without paying for it, but that's okay, because you were never planning to pay for it in the first place?

People think of digital information differently from physical objects because its so easy to make a copy, but you wouldn't take anyone seriously if they claimed that stealing a diamond ring wasn't wrong because they were never planning to buy one in the first place, would you? That is your defense, in a nutshell.

If you don't buy something, or borrow it temporarily, or have it given to you, then you don't get to use it and remain on the moral high ground.

I must sound like a broken record. If you are harming others, it's wrong. Stealing a diamond ring will always harm others because they won't have their diamond ring anymore. Your intentions or desire to purchase the ring legitly or not cannot change that.

If piracy ends up hurting someone, however that may be, then it is wrong. All I am saying is, given the right situation, it is possible for piracy to exist and not be harming anyone. Only in that case, would it be ok.

They put up gobs of money to produce the game, and now you have it, and they have nothing to show for it. I guess I just don't see much of a difference.

Inazuma says "Harming people is bad and not harming people is OK."
zarathstra says "Harming people is bad."

I am not disagreeing with you with what you are saying, so please stop acting like I am. You just refuse to acknowledge that something can be OK when it's not harming anyone. I bet you think prostitution is wrong too. We are lucky the world isn't filled with mindless sheep like yourself (or maybe it is actually) or else slavery would still be legal today.

Harming people = Bad
Not harming people = OK
This is the basis on which all morals are made. AKA " The golden rule"

If you want to argue with me, you need to explain to me how not harming people is bad. I agree that harming people is bad so there is no need to keep telling me that. Anyone who wants to keep putting words in my mouth and make me out to be someone in favor of harming others won't get a response from me. I'm disgusted at how close minded many of you are.

[zarathstra]

Inazuma says "Harming people is bad and not harming people is OK."
zarathstra says "Harming people is bad."

I am not disagreeing with you with what you are saying, so please stop acting like I am. You just refuse to acknowledge that something can be OK when it's not harming anyone. I bet you think prostitution is wrong too. We are lucky the world isn't filled with mindless sheep like yourself (or maybe it is actually) or else slavery would still be legal today.

Harming people = Bad
Not harming people = OK
This is the basis on which all morals are made. AKA " The golden rule"

If you want to argue with me, you need to explain to me how not harming people is bad. I agree that harming people is bad so there is no need to keep telling me that. Anyone who wants to keep putting words in my mouth and make me out to be someone in favor of harming others won't get a response from me. I'm disgusted at how close minded many of you are.

You seem to be under a mistaken impression as well. I'm fine with not hurting people. That's silly and obvious. I think where we disagree is that you think your actions are harmless, and I don't.

Now, since you've decided that name calling is a valid debate technique, I think we're done here.

And for the record, I'm fine with prostitution. You should probably stop leaping to so many conclusions, right after you learn to stop insulting people who are trying to have a reasoned debate with you.

[vash23n]

These arguments always reach a certain point where it's fun to just sit back and watch.

[pepharytheworm]

The only difference between what you are doing Inazuma and some one who steals an actual game is you are leaving the worthless stuff behind. The disc, the booklet and the casing and you are taking the info. You are taking there hard work and effort. I am not telling you to stop doing it but saying it doesn't harm anyone is being to use your words close minded. The world isn't perfect its almost impossible to do something that doesn't harm someone. OK lets use protitution as an example. People who test them self and make sure their client is tested seems safe. But how do you make everyone practice safe sex prostitution. You my friend might be a person who looks out for others but not everyone else isn't going to do the same. Go to school learn how to program, then program a game of your own design, then release that game to the public. Now your telling me if some guy comes up to you and says "I don't like certain aspects of your game, so I am never going to buy it. Instead I am going to burn, copy it, or some how emulate it." Now how would you feel? I guess you wouldn't even get hurt feelings cause thats a type of harm.
Burn, copy, emulate to your hearts content I don't care. Be a pirate. But don't make it out like your making some statement by pirating the game instead of buying it. You might not like a game enough to buy it but you liked it enough to pirate it so it is worth something to you and that worth the company never got.

By the way I am neither for or against prostitution, until they make an STD sniffer I might tilt my favor. But I will tell you one thing if prostitution is legal I don't want to go on a date with a woman thinking she's in to me. Then we get to the bedroom and says that'll be $50. $20 for a blow. Women take enough money as it is I can't afford more.

[vash23n]

By the way I am neither for or against prostitution, until they make an STD sniffer I might tilt my favor. But I will tell you one thing if prostitution is legal I don't want to go on a date with a woman thinking she's in to me. Then we get to the bedroom and says that'll be $50. $20 for a blow. Women take enough money as it is I can't afford more.

Could you imagine bringing a sex sniffer on a date with a prostitute? Aawwkkwwaarrdd...

[Inazuma]

Harming people is bad. Harming people is bad. Harming people is bad. This is Inazuma saying this. Inazuma thinks harming people is wrong. Does anyone actually read what I type?

How many times must I say it for you guys to get it? If for whatever reason, my piracy was harming someone, it would be BAD. Is there anyway for anyone to do anything that doesn't harm people? Honestly, you think piracy is always harming someone 100% of the time, no matter what the circumstance may be?

Example:
Joe legally bought a copy of Artist A's hit song on music cd, itunes, the Zune store, Amazon.com, and also bought another copy of the music cd to get signed by Artist A at the concert. Joe travels to England to have sex with a hot woman he met on the internet and she asks to hear his favorite song. Joe only brought a suitcase full of condoms and lube with him, and he would normally not want to purchase the same song yet again, but instead he quickly hops on his favorite torrent site to illegally pirate Artist A's hit song so his woman can hear it.

I don't think Joe is doing anything wrong in this situation. He has already bought the song, many times over in fact. This would be an example of piracy being OK and not harming the creator, Artist A.

Another example:
Instead of legally purchasing the $1 music mp3 from itunes, Bill decides to pirate a higher quality version for free. He then proceeds to give $1000 to every single person who helped contribute in any way possible to creating that song. He also gives $1000 to every person who works for Apple. Please explain how Bill is a horrible thief in this situation.

And another example:
Steve is the president of the USA. Having recently lost all of his family members in a car accident, he seeks out an old game that he used to play as a child to help him through hard times. He really wants to play the game, but it is 30 years old, out of print, no copies exist because they were all burned in a volcano, the copyright holders cannot be found even with the help of the entire FBI working on it. Since he is unable to acquire a legitimate copy, Steve decides to pirate the game off the internet. He ends up enjoying the game very much and it helps him out of his depression, which ends up aiding him greatly in making important decisions for the future of our country. Please tell me how President Steve is an asshole in this situation.

[vash23n]

Harming people is bad. Harming people is bad. Harming people is bad. This is Inazuma saying this. Inazuma thinks harming people is wrong. Does anyone actually read what I type?

How many times must I say it for you guys to get it? If for whatever reason, my piracy was harming someone, it would be BAD. Is there anyway for anyone to do anything that doesn't harm people? Honestly, you think piracy is always harming someone 100% of the time, no matter what the circumstance may be?

Example:
Joe legally bought a copy of Artist A's hit song on music cd, itunes, the Zune store, Amazon.com, and also bought another copy of the music cd to get signed by Artist A at the concert. Joe travels to England to have sex with a hot woman he met on the internet and she asks to hear his favorite song. Joe only brought a suitcase full of condoms and lube with him, and he would normally not want to purchase the same song yet again, but instead he quickly hops on his favorite torrent site to illegally pirate Artist A's hit song so his woman can hear it.

I don't think Joe is doing anything wrong in this situation. He has already bought the song, many times over in fact. This would be an example of piracy being OK and not harming the creator, Artist A.

Another example:
Instead of legally purchasing the $1 music mp3 from itunes, Bill decides to pirate a higher quality version for free. He then proceeds to give $1000 to every single person who helped contribute in any way possible to creating that song. He also gives $1000 to every person who works for Apple. Please explain how Bill is a horrible thief in this situation.

And another example:
Steve is the president of the USA. Having recently lost all of his family members in a car accident, he seeks out an old game that he used to play as a child to help him through hard times. He really wants to play the game, but it is 30 years old, out of print, no copies exist because they were all burned in a volcano, the copyright holders cannot be found even with the help of the entire FBI working on it. Since he is unable to acquire a legitimate copy, Steve decides to pirate the game off the internet. He ends up enjoying the game very much and it helps him out of his depression, which ends up aiding him greatly in making important decisions for the future of our country. Please tell me how President Steve is an asshole in this situation.

Okay, again, I am someone who does pirate music, but I have to ask, do any of these examples in anyway relate to you? From what I have gathered, you did not buy multiple copies of the game Spore, and you did not donate a couple thousand dollars to all those in charge of creating the game, you just pirated one copy. Are you using the metaphor that 100s of people bought the game Spore and so you pirating only 1 copy is okay? I guess I could see what you are saying there, but it is still not a good argument. Not noble at least. I mean, again as someone who also pirates a type of media, I don't in anyway think there is some fancy justification as to why it is okay for ME to do it. I just make the decision and do it, knowing the ramifications and being willing to deal with whatever consequences await me.

[Inazuma]

By the way I am neither for or against prostitution, until they make an STD sniffer I might tilt my favor. But I will tell you one thing if prostitution is legal I don't want to go on a date with a woman thinking she's in to me. Then we get to the bedroom and says that'll be $50. $20 for a blow. Women take enough money as it is I can't afford more.

I never said STD's were good. I was talking about prostitution, not sex in general. You can get STD's from free sex too, you know. You can get STD's from the hospital if they accidentally use donor blood from someone with AIDS. Does that mean we should make hospitals illegal as well?

Prostitution isn't illegal because of the chance of STD's. What if both parties had thorough, verified STD testing just prior to exchanging money for sex? That's still illegal. What if both parties just had sex for free, and now one of them is offering money for a second round? That's still illegal. What if instead of money, they use dinner at a restaurant? That's.... oh wait, that one is legal actually. Probably because there are taxes being paid.

Anyway, the truth is that if you take away the money involved, this horrible criminal act becomes perfectly legal and acceptable. The money itself is the reason. Prostitution isn't illegal because of anything related to sex or STD's or violence, or being unfaithful to your spouse. In reality, it's no better or worse than free sex. If both parties agree to it and both are happy, there is nothing morally wrong. Laws are not morals. Instead of making decisions based on laws alone, how about you guys use logic, truth and reality instead?