"no russian"

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I like what you wrote Ack. I posted my stuff before I got to read the fifth page (went away from the computer for a while). Your post encompassed my feelings on the matter pretty well.

[Gamerforlife]

Thank you Ack. I think you better articulated how I feel than I did.

It's cool, and to be totally honest I know exactly what you mean about attempting to not kill folks in games if possible. I tranqued everybody I could in the MGS games.

Kind of a similar thing, but I tend to obsess over keeping NPCs alive in most games I play. When I used to play the original Halo, I always tried keeping marines alive in every stage. When playing smaller missions on Brutal Legends I try to keep every unit alive. I always tried to save every officer in Dynasty Warriors 3 and keep morale up. And I'm currently in the process of trying to save all survivors in Dead Rising, which oddly enough has become the most interesting part of the game for me. It's not slaughtering zombies that has become the real draw of the game for me, but the fact that there are so many people in the game whose lives are in your hands.

So yeah, a level like "no russian" obviously doesn't have much appeal to a gamer like me. Those are innocent people, at least as far as we know anyway. Being forced to kill them or sit back and watch as they are slaughtered would bother me as a gamer. If I encountered a situation like this in a Bioware game, there would likely be a choice involved on my part. There are some sick and horrific events I've seen in Bioware games, but it's always up to you whether or not those events happen or whether or not you take part in them. You can have a young girl murdered in front of you by her best friend in KOTOR by using your powers of mind control, but it's a choice that YOU make, not the developers. If there was some choice involved in "no russian", maybe it would be less offensive.

Ack makes some good points about the power games have over us due to the interactive element. I always viewed games as the best entertainment medium for two reasons. One is that they bring in everything that makes other entertainment mediums enjoyable into one whole. The music, cinematography, storytelling, etc. And two, they add in that extra ingredient that elevates gaming above the other mediums it borrows so heavily from, the interactive element. It's the only entertainment medium that doesn't allow you to be passive. You and your in game character are one. You're taking part in everything they do and are this sort of invisible accomplice to that character's actions. Call of Duty 2 shows how that can be used in disturbing(for some of us) ways.

[Niode]

The only thing that annoys me about the whole No Russion level is why the fuck can't you just shoot makarov and his buddies and run off. Even giving you option of disabling the airport security rather than killing them (since they view you as a terrorist regardless) That would have been a much more satisfying level than the one they put in. The fact that it clearly states 'you won't miss any important story information by skipping this level' means that it's completely useless as a plot device so you should be able to deal with the level in any means possible. Giving the user the freedom to do good or bad would have been better than kill the civvies or watch them get killed.

[Limewater]

Sorry if someone mention this already - didn't read all the posts.

The problem I had with "No Russian" is that it didn't really do enough to make me feel bad for what my character was doing.

What if, instead of it just starting you off mowing people down, you first had to make your way to your team as a civilian yourself? As you were making your way to your team, where you would then suit up and mow down, you'd have to deal with these people as a normal person would. You'd hear them talk amongst themselves, talk to you, talk about you. Make most of them act very nice and just, in general, make it seem like these people were friendly and salt of the earth folks.

Then mow them down.

That's how you do it. You have to humanize them, otherwise it just becomes GTA.

I think Geist on Gamecube does a pretty good job of this. The people in the game aren't civilians, but most clearly don't know what is going on. There are several times you can possess someone and walk around and be friendly with characters before you are have to kill them. It makes the game feel very brutal to me.

[IcKy99]

this game makes me want to buy a gun and kill my room mates and my family

[the7k]

Well, looks like we finally got word from Activision about No Russian. It was all a glitch that none of the enemies at the beginning of the mission had weapons, but they're working on a fix.

http://www.destructoid.com/activision-u ... 5268.phtml

[Luke]

Well, looks like we finally got word from Activision about No Russian. It was all a glitch that none of the enemies at the beginning of the mission had weapons, but they're working on a fix.

http://www.destructoid.com/activision-u ... 5268.phtml

That is pretty hilarious. I sent a link to the youtube video to a very close friend of mine and he responded,"I'm going to call you after work and explain to you every reason why that level should have not been in the game". I'm waiting anxiously for his call.

[(-_-)]

Well, looks like we finally got word from Activision about No Russian. It was all a glitch that none of the enemies at the beginning of the mission had weapons, but they're working on a fix.

http://www.destructoid.com/activision-u ... 5268.phtml

That is pretty hilarious. I sent a link to the youtube video to a very close friend of mine and he responded,"I'm going to call you after work and explain to you every reason why that level should have not been in the game". I'm waiting anxiously for his call.

I'm interested in what he has to say too. Everyone I know who has played it so far hasn't felt that it should be removed or crossed a line. They all agree that it wasn't just an important plot point, but because of the way it has created debate too.

[Luke]

Talked to my good friend Dave last night, we barely talked about the game though. He said that for how realistic the people looked, the level didn't seem finished. "I mean c'mon! They step in puddles of blood, and they don't leave any footprints? That is so weak. And almost 99% of the blood ends up on the floor, and not splattered all over the walls. I mean, if you're going to try to shock people like that, do it right".

The rest of the conversation was about business, so I won't bore you with that.

[Gnashvar]

I think everyone has the right to express what they want in games. It's freedom of speech. But like someone mentioned they are using this as advertisement. We can all see the level is not needed. It's not even fun. They added this for controversy and publicity. And that's lame. And by the quality of the Modern Warfare games, not needed at all. But we all have a right to do as we wish, we can play it or not. I just wish that "mature" games would be a bit more mature and that "hardcore" gamers would not be so immature thinking that blood and stupid violence makes a good game. So like I said before in another thread I'll go back to not being a "gamer" and playing Mario on my "casual gaming" Wii. At least it's fun and doesn't give me a guilty conscience.