Problem with XRGB2 / 60Hz signals

[DC906270]

when i put my modded PAL playstation via RGB (running import games at 60hZ) through my xrgb2 and into a Sony Bravia W series LCD TV's VGA PC input, i get a picture but also an error message in the corner of the screen "unsupported signal change pc input", and the picture i get is widescreen rather than 14:9 or whatever i get with my other NTSC-J consoles. i cant get rid of the error message. anyone know why the PAL playstation outputs differently at 60Hz to my other NTSC-J consoles?
I know the Playstation outputs PAL 60Hz, but a 60Hz signal should be the same as another through RGB.

[Mod_Man_Extreme]

Ir it's outputting PAL 60hz then it's outputting in a PAL resolution not an NTSC resolution which could very well be the cause of the error, also make sure you're using an NTSC-J RGB cable for your PlayStation as although PAL RGB cables are the same shape their pinout is wired differently.

[DC906270]

thanks for your reply well, im using the same rgb cable as i use with my jap ps2 with no problems.. and i may have heard that PAL/NTSC format is redundant when dealing with rgb as it simply deals with both as 60hz signals??

[DC906270]

my solution is going to be to get a vga ---> hdmi converter box for the vga output of the xrgb2, and connect to the tv by hdmi, therefore bypassing my tv's vga input. sound sensible?

[Mod_Man_Extreme]

When i comes to NTSC it doesn't matter what frequency your picture is in, what really matters is the resolution. PAL signals have a 576i resolution (576 vertical scanlines) and US/JPN NTSC signals carry 480in (480 vertical scanlines) making them incompatible.

So, regardless of whatever cable or frequency you use you have to use the correct resolution to be able to play said machine on your TV.

VGA to HDMI won't mean crap in the end as long as the X-RGB doesn't know how to process the signal so you'll have to give it one from a native NTSC/UC or NTSC/J source not one from an NTSC/P, PAL-M or Pal-N device.

[DC906270]

PAL signals have a 576i resolution (576 vertical scanlines) and US/JPN NTSC signals carry 480in (480 vertical scanlines) making them incompatible

thats good to know. the xrgb is outputting a picture to the tv, its the tv that says its "unsupported" and puts up an error message, the actual picture is fine. the tv itself seems to be the problem, the display cant be altered with the usual screen-sizing options. im hoping the hdmi input will "support" the signal, as long as the vga-->hdmi converter can deal with it.

[DC906270]

does this make any sense to you?. the sony tvs pc input signal reference chart :

VGA 640 x 480 31.5 60 VGA
SVGA 800 x 600 37.9 60 VESA Guidelines
XGA 1,024 x 768 48.4 60 VESA Guidelines
WXGA 1,280 x 768 47.4 60 VESA
1,280 x 768 47.8 60 VESA
1,360 x 768 47.7 60 VESA
SXGA 1,280 x 1,024 64.0 60 VESA
HDTV* 1,920 x 1,080 67.5 60 CEA-861*

the number coloured in green is the "vertical line" resolution accepted by the pc input. it seems to say it would accept a PAL 60 SVGA signal from the xrgb, but not a PAL 60 VGA input. i think the xrgb is outputting a VGA and not an SVGA signal?
also, connecting PAL 60 via hdmi should work according to this table, as the max vertical resolution is 1080.

[DC906270]

From tv's manual :

This TV’s PC input does not support Sync on Green or Composite Sync.

This TV’s PC VGA input does not support interlaced signals.

For the best picture quality, it is recommended to use the signals in the above chart. In plug and play, signals with a 60 Hz vertical frequency will be detected automatically. (PC reboot may be necessary.)
Phase and Pitch options are not available with PC signal connected to HDMI input

it may be the problem that the PAL 60 resolution is interlaced?

[Mod_Man_Extreme]

All Standard Definition signals are interlaced, that's why you have the X-RGB, it's job it to de-interlace the signals fed into it and create one of any numerous VGA standard signals.

The problem here is this, you either need to get an American or Japanese PS1 to play NTSC/UC or NTSC/J PS1 games on your HDTV through your X-RGB PERIOD.

When the TV says unsupported image are you sure it's not the TV that's telling you it's not supported but the X-RGB itself. You should be able to tell if it's your TV or X-RGB by looking at the standard menu font etc...

The bottom line is you can only feed an NTSC/UC or NTSC/J source into a native NTSC machine PERIOD. Anything else PAL or PAL/NTSC I believe will have to be piped directly into the TV by the individual console itself.

[DC906270]

When the TV says unsupported image are you sure it's not the TV that's telling you it's not supported but the X-RGB itself. You should be able to tell if it's your TV or X-RGB by looking at the standard menu font etc...

its definately the tv..

The bottom line is you can only feed an NTSC/UC or NTSC/J source into a native NTSC machine PERIOD. Anything else PAL or PAL/NTSC I believe will have to be piped directly into the TV by the individual console itself.

I believe XRGBs can handle 50Hz (and thus i think PAL) stuff...in fact theres an option to change the display frequency (V_SYNC) between 50 and 60Hz in the XRGB2 menu (to cope with some pcbs which apparently output 50Hz). The XRGB is a sophisticated piece of equipment , sold for around $300 - $400, it should be able to handle all frequencys as its designed to cope with different pcb outputs...(as long as you feed it via a japanese wired rgb scart cable) i think the problem is my tvs VGA pc input. ive gone ahead and ordered a VGA--> HDMI converter so hopefully this will solve the problem. if not it will make a nice addition to my "sale" thread