Using a Computer With a TV as a ROMANATOR

[Jrecee]

. . . or something.

Ok so a few years ago I bought this adapter thing with a/v cables to use my tv as a computer screen, with the idea of playing roms or whatever on it. Few problems though, one, it's a/v, and I'm now thinking I'll use my HDTV instead. Two, it didn't handle sound. So basically I'm looking at starting from scratch. I have an old computer that I could possibly use, but I'm thinking some newer pcs are set up to handle this without extra hardware. Still, I want to go as cheap as possible with this so I won't be buying a $1,000 media center pc or anything.

Basically I need:

1. The best way to hook my pc to an hdtv. My tv has a couple hdmi ports, but I'm not sure I could expect to find hdmi on a budget pc, and definitely not the one I already have. If there was some sort of adapter that could work. . .

2. Sound, I need sound flowing to my tv's speakers (which in turn can flow to the surround sound)

3. A good controller or controller adapter to use for this. I want to be able to play two player arcade games, will most emulators/computers recognize two usb controllers alright?

4. A cheap wireless keyboard and wireless mouse that I can use from around 10 feet.

So has anyone gotten their computer hooked up to their tv like this before? Ideas!

[miked]

Does your tv have a VGA input? You could use that and a 1/8" cable for the sound. It might not look or sound as good as HDMI, but it would still be nice and crisp.

DVI can easily be converted to HDMI though, and I don't know how common it is but my Nvidia 9600gt supports HDMI with sound using a adapter on the back of the card and a cable going to the audio pins on the motherboard.

Ive always used xbox and ps2 controller adapters for emulators, or you could even get some SNES to USB controller adapters and Saturn USB pads for plenty of options.

[Jrecee]

Nope no VGA input on the tv. For some reason I was thinking hdmi was video only, like component. As far as DVI goes, that'd definitely put me into the new computer category. . .

What do you mean by 1/8" cable? Would that just be some sort of cable that goes into the speaker jack of the computer and has the red/white on the other end?

I'm actually starting to think the adapter I have has component capability too, so I might just need to sort out the audio part.

*Edit, Like this? http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?c ... &sku=40614

[miked]

That wasn't what I meant, but if your video cable supports component but has no audio thats what you need.

Depending on how old the computer is(assuming it has a vacant PCI express slot) you could probably get a new video card for pretty cheap that supports the whole HDMI with audio thing. It would also give you a nice edge on PS1 and N64 emulation. Probably in the $40 through $100 range.

[Jrecee]

It's ancient, and I honestly wouldn't put anything more into it than it has now. It's a 2001 emachines. It runs emulators just fine, although I haven't tried N64 emulation on it. As far as arcade games and classics, it's fine though. If I do use it for this, it'll just be a stopgap until I can get something a little better. I'd like to get one of those small form factor pcs once windows 7 comes out, like http://www.dell.com/us/en/home/desktops ... =dhs&cs=19

[nickfil]

Basically- you have a couple options in regards to getting the video on screen. There are a couple different ways depending on what kind of hookups you have on your TV.

VGA -> VGA DVI->VGA DVI->HDMI

To my knowledge tvs arn't built with dvi ports yet. Maybe some are. I don't know how the video would look with this, but you could try 2 sets if cables before you go and buy a new computer or something like that.
VGA->DVI and DVI->HDMI

A pretty weird territory, but probably doable.

As for sound, you can use a 3.5mm to rca jacks like the ones linked, or just a strait 3.5 to 3.5 if the tv supports it.

Good luck with it. I have my computer running VGA->VGA and 3.5 in. Looks great. Sounds ok, but perfect for emulation. If you do go this route, getting a wireless keyboard/mouse is a must.

IMHO- your best bet for emulation is homebrewing a home console. You may not get EVERYTHING a computer can do, but if you just want to play super mario 3, it'll do the job better than the computer only because it is easier get running. No bios boot up. No drivers or any of that nonsense. Just games.

[lordofduct]

HDMI is almost nearly DVI. There are a few mild differences:

1) the pin and port design is different (rather obvious)

2) HDMI has the ability to carry audio on it, the newer versions supporting HD audio

3) HDMI ready devices tend to expect certain static display modes... this is more got to do with your choice in television. Thankfully most video cards can output these different modes. Including 1080p, 1080i, 720p, etc

4) HDMI ready devices occasionally expect protected signals. Basically a form of a handshake made between the output device and the display. This one here raises the largest issue as most TVs don't explicitly say if they require this handshake or not. I know that my 50inch Samsung DLP 1080p display does NOT require such a handshake (notably though this can sometimes cause issues in the reverse where depending the order in which you start both devices can cause the lack of handshake to disrupt the output device. I noticed this using when hooking my 360 directly to my TV).

When a video card states it is "HDMI ready" (may it have or not have the HDMI port) merely means it is capable of this protected signal handshake.


Personally video card wise, I suggest getting an actual video card and NOT going onboard. Also I suggest Nvidia as the video card. Their multi-display support in Windows is very good (much better then ATI has ever been for me), I've never had issues hooking Nvidia cards to my televisions in the past (I've used DVI->HDMI connectors on 5 different sets all with various models of Nvidia and never had problems... well... read on)

There is one BIG annoying issue that you may not like. And having a Nvidia card makes this a bit easier to deal with (though still a bit hard to find the configuration for). A lot of Televisions perform what is called "overscan". This is when a some of the edges of the video is not displayed on screen... Basically like the "start" button may appear off screen. Nvidia has an overscan setting that can compensate for this. I've noticed this occur more frequently on CRT displays... my DLP has suffered from it on strange resolutions (it has handled most resolutions I've thrown at it).



....

Sound - most HDTV's with anything considered respectable audio should have some sort of audio input. I know my television has a RCA red/white audio input, as well as SPDIF.

Though personally I suggest a quality audio receiver and amplifier. Though that means a larger investment that you'd might rather build up to then start off with.

As for getting the audio out of your PC. If you have SPDIF or Coax Digital audio input on your TV or A/V receiver, you can get a number of affordable audio cards with support. For a mere 10 dollars you can get a basic audio card with these outputs, the cheap cost of the card merely is because it doesn't perform the processing itself and will utilize system resources. A more powerful card would relieve stress from the CPU, but with todays processors that isn't a big deal really.

Further more a lot of modern mother boards come with onboard digital audio output (through the onboard audio chipset).

If your TV or A/V receiver doesn't have digital inputs, you can always get a simple midi-jack -> RCA adapter. They cost like 2 bucks as the conversion is simple, they are pretty much identical just different shaped connector.


....

As for controllers and keyboards and mice. Well that's rather subjective to you.

Personally I like my "3 in 1 PC Joy Box" which accepts a Saturn, PS2, and Dreamcast controller and connects to USB. It functions with every application I've thrown at it (it acts like any normal USB HID) and it has functioned well with every OS I've thrown at it: Windows XP, Vista, 7, OSX, Ubuntu Linux, Fedora Core, and Solaris.

Keyboard and mouse I have only one thing to consider. Where are you going to place it when using it? Consider comfort and everything. I bought a wireless keyboard with a analog stick on it that acts as a mouse. This made for nice laying on the couch use. The mouse kinda sucks for anything more then point and click functionality (I wouldn't play games with it), but for sitting back on your couch and using it to sift through your Media Player or start up some application it's nice.

I will say if you have a comfortable place to put a real mouse, you may prefer that.

Oh and if you plan on using Windows I suggest a version of windows with "Media Center" (all Windows 7 comes with it). You can get a remote control with it, and it is prime for watching TV and the controller is very nice... or if you have a 360 the 360 remote control also works. Lastly if you have a 360 you can use it as a remote client and log into the windows machine and stream video from the windows machine very nicely with the same smooth Media Center GUI. I've used it for a few years now and love it. (you need a capture card with hardware mpeg2 encoding, like the Haupauge MC500)

[lordofduct]

OH, and I need to clear one other thing up about DVI.

DVI comes in a few flavours.

DVI-D - includes on the pins for digital video (what is on HDMI as well)

DVI-A - includes on the pins needed for analogue video (basically VGA with the HDMI connector)

DVI-I - the most common (if not always) output of videocards, this is a combination of DVI-D and DVI-A

DVI-DA - this is like DVI-I but also carries USB signals as well. Mac uses this in a few of its machines.


You can tell what kind of connector cable you have by looking at its male ends:

click this link, .svg from wiki so I can't display it here:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... pinout.svg

All the pins on the left carry syncing signals and digital data. The square clump on the right holds the grounding signal. And the 4 corner pins (labeled c with a number after it) are the analogue RGB signals (or YUV in the WEIRD chance you have a video card outputting analogue YUV). As well as the hsync.

The lack of pins the square block would be a cable that support only digital. Ones with the majority of the other pins missing is analogue only.

Though this really shouldn't be an issue. MOST cables and PC video cards output and carry both analogue and digital.


OH... another consideration is the array of pins for the digital signal, some cables have a good deal of them, but a few missing... this are mono-DVI where as ones with all are dual-DVI. Now the support of dual-DVI weighs on your videocards support of it, but it means that you can output super high resolutions. This isn't a huge deal though with TVs as the super high resolutions aren't supported. (note in my previous linked image, the "link2" for each digital colour signal, those would be missing or dead in a monoDVI connection)

My PCs monitor (a 30 inch display at 2560x1600) requires the dual-DVI output... which means a quality video card and quality DVI cables with good shielding and all pins.

[Jrecee]

I'm weary of any homebrew console stuff after Nintendo's bullshit, not to mention I've never been particularly good at getting that stuff to work. Also, I'll probably use this mostly for arcade games. Not sure if that makes a difference, but most the homebrew type stuff I see tends to be focused on nes/snes/etc. I'm also seeing that some of these cheap computers have bluray drives, which might be useful. . . although I'm sure I'll get a ps3 eventually anyway.

The mouse and keyboard would really only be for basic navigation functions and not really for playing games. I have a coffee table to put it on so that's good enough. I just need to get something that will work from a distance. I have a wireless mouse for my mac but it only works like 3 feet from the receiver.

[nickfil]

I'd like to get one of those small form factor pcs once windows 7 comes out, like http://www.dell.com/us/en/home/desktops ... =dhs&cs=19

Do you think if you maxed that guy out in the options when it came down to video/ram/chipset that it would run most stuff on steam? like l4d, TF2, The wticher, stalker etc?

This has always been what has kept me out of pc gaming. I always want to get a rig, but i'm never sure it is what i would need/want. I would hate to get one of these dells and then have it not able to play the games i want it to.