Choosing an AV Reciever: Analog Upscaling

[racketboy]

So I'm in the planning phases of a new home theater setup.
I'm shopping around for a receiver (like a $500 budget) and I'm seeing a lot of units that will upscale analog inputs to 1080i and/or 1080p.

Now I realize that it's not gonna make a Composite output from a Genesis look like HD, but I'm trying do decide how important/useful this is.

There was a unit from Onkyo I was looking at that said it upscaled to 1080p


However, that unit seems to be just discontinued and its harder to find a good price on it.

I did find this rather new unit that I can get for just above $400:

However, it only claims to upscale to 1080i as opposed to 1080p

Is this anything I should be concerned about for consoles like a Dreamcast, Gamecube, or Wii?

Now, I also noticed that fewer receivers (including the ones mentioned above) don't have S-Video or VGA inputs. So I guess I would need one of those VGA to HDMI adapters for the Dreamcast and not sure what I would do if I wanted to hook up a SNES or Saturn (composite only?)

What are your thoughts?

[Frag Mortuus]

I have the Onkyo TX-SR606 which is basically last years version of the 607. I think it it amazing. It has Faroudja’s DCDi video scaling, which removes a lot of articfacts that pop up with a lot of analog upconverting. This receiver will also process Dolby Digital True HD and DTS HD Master Audio. It has 4 HDMI inputs, and a ton of other options. When I bought it, I read a review from Hometheatermag.com and they said it was one of the best receiver they had ever reviewed (for the money).

Another great feature it has that my old receiver didnt, is it will change aspect ratio on the fly. If I have my HD Satellite box hooked straight to the T.V. and I am watching HD programming it will fill the 16:9 screen as it should, however, when watching SD material at 4:3 it will put letter boxes on the side of the screen to keep the original aspect ratio. Some people like this, I do not. So to make 4:3 fill the screen I have to push the aspect ratio on the remote to switch it, but, when I go back to 16:9 the picture is zoomed in and I have to switch the aspect ration again. You can see that this would get annoying very fast. Well The TX-SR606 (and im assuming the 607) can automatically detect the correct aspect ration change it accordingly. 16:9 never gets zoomed in and 4:3 fills the screen.

The 606 also has room calibration so that you can get the best sound quality for your room, and a whole ton of other stuff.

I have never been happier with a HT purchase ever. I think if you go with the 607 you wil be just as happy.

Im a Home Theater nut, so if anyone has any question regarding TVs, receiver, disc players, speakers or whatever just let me know.

As far as VGA, I've never came across a receiver that has VGA, alot of people think that an RS232 input is VGA because they look similar. But, RS232 is what professional calibrators use to hook their equipment to when calibrating.

Now, one thing you need to be concerned about when upscaling is that if you have a 1080p source hooked up to the receiver and you have the receiver set to upscale items to 1080i, it will actually down-convert your 1080p source to 1080i because the receiver thinks that everything is supposed to be output at 1080i. The upconverting will make your older system look great, but keep in mind, a Saturn is not going to look like an XB360 or PS3 now matter what. However, upconverting can remove a lot of jaggies, artifacts, and make your FPS a lot higher.

Lastly, if you are in the market for a new TV as well, I would recommend getting a TV with at least 120Hz or higher. This feature duplicates frames of animation inserts them in to the playback, basically doubling the frames per second that your eyes are seeing. This feature works great with games. It makes all my XB360 games run at 60fps, it really must be seen in action to appreciate. I dont like this feature with movies or TV though. Being that Camcorders shoot at 60fps and TV is shot at 30fps and movies at 24fps, this feature gives TV show and Movies and camcorder feel and to me is very distracting (most TVs will let you enable this feature on an input by input basis, so i only use it on my game inputs). If you wish to get a TV that has a higher refresh rate like 240Hz then go with a Sony or Samsung as these two companies are the only ones that have a true 240Hz, most other companies have a faux 240Hz that just duplicates the same frame twice.

Well if you need anymore info PM me.

[Hatta]

VGA is analog, so you're probably better off going VGA to Component than VGA to HDMI. Let the expensive receiver do the analog to digital conversion, instead of the cheap adapter.

[fox099]

Ive actually been on this quest for quite some time, and let me tell you, it is actually rather difficult! Ive been looking at Onkyo, Yamaha and Denon, and all of them provide exceptional receivers, excluding one factor: all new receivers lack SVIDEO! At first I thought it might be just a brand choice, but all the major manufacturers have moved on and left Svid to the way side. The lowest current model you can get with Svideo is the Onkyo 707, but it is a steep price increase over the 507 or 607. I know there have been complaints about the Faroujda upconversion, but my question has always been the amount of lag experienced by people with gaming consoles (I know it was really bad when receivers began processing video game images a few years ago). That said, I would test it out first to see if there is any lag, and check the picture quality. Also, if Svid isnt important, then go with the 507 or 607, but if you want it (always start with the best pic quality), and to stay in your price point, I would suggest going with a slightly older model, such as the Onkyo 605. Best of luck!

[MrPopo]

This is a fantastic website that I used while looking into upscalers.

http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/

The tl;dr is that the XRGB is the best value for your money.

[racketboy]

Good responses everyone!
Well, I probably won't use it a LOT for older stuff, but I like to have the option, obviously.
I might get an original XBox and mod it for emulation, but even that I'd like to have upscaled.

I'm just wondering how much that's worth to me.
Also, with that Onkyo receiver, you can't have it upscale certain sources to 1080i and leave standard 1080p devices like a PS3 or Blu-Ray player at 1080p

Once I get the basement home theater complete, I'll probably convert my extra bedroom to an office/retro room. I may get a small LCD for the living room and then move my HD Slimfit CRT to that room for the retro consoles.

[V3rtigo]

maybe its just me, but why are you going thru the receiver for video? why not go straight to the tv and let the receiver do audio only?

[racketboy]

So I'm looking at this Yamaha now since it supposedly upscales to 1080p and the price is very reasonable. Am I overlooking anything?

[MrPopo]

I'd make sure to research the time it takes to do the upscaling. Several upscalers make take 5 frames to upscale, which introduces a noticable lag into the equation. In comparison, the XRGB-3 in B1 (line doubling) mode has a single frame delay, as it simply waits for the second frame to come in and adds it with the first to give a progressive signal.

Also, your TV might still do processing on a component signal which can also introduce lag. Another advantage of the XRGB is it outputs a PC signal which most TVs let through unmolested.

[Inazuma]

(Lots of great advice.)

I agree with everything MrPopo says. The XRGB is completely amazing and I strongly recommend it. Besides doing a fantastic job on the upscaling itself, it has an RGB port, which is the highest quality connection possible for most of the old consoles. If you are not familiar with RGB, it's about the same quality as using component cables. No matter how good an American upscale device may seem, it won't likely surpass the Japanese XRGB unit, partly because of the lack of an RGB port.

The XRGB unit will only accept a Japanese region RGB cable and you could potentially destroy the RGB port by using a European cable, so be careful. However, despite saying that, I suggest using European cables and running them through a region converter cable into the XRGB. There are two reasons for this. First off, European RGB cables are much cheaper and easier to find. Secondly, it's 100 times easier/cheaper to find a European RGB switch box. The XRGB only has a single RGB port, so using a switch box would not only allow you to connect multiple consoles, but you would only need one region converter cable.