Healthcare

[ieatramen]

ummm... i like nintendo games!

[MrPopo]

I think I saw one example in this thread of how the current situation with how insurance doesn't always work well. I'm not saying the current state of the health care system is good, but I don't agree with the notion of government subsidized health care. If the goal is to fix the health care system and remove the layers of obfuscation that essentially requires people today to just give money to an insurance company and hope for the best and provide the ability for real competition I'm all for it. But the health care discussion is always about universal, government-subsidized health care.

Yes, I do realize that most people do not become doctors for the money. They become doctors for a variety of reasons; some want to save people, others are fascinated by the act of medicine. But they still need the money. Being a doctor is their job, and they aren't going to work for free. Yes, sometimes they do pro-bono work, just like how you help your buddy move. But the majority of their time in medicine is spent doing work with compensation. And someone brought up the Hippocratic Oath. The Hippocratic Oath boils down to doing the best thing for a patient possible to keep them alive and healthy. It says nothing about taking in anyone who comes to you as a patient. Once you've taken them on you have an obligation, but you have no obligation to take them on.

Guess what? People who can and cannot pay ARE equal. They are all human beings and deserve the same amount of consideration when it comes to health, whether they have money or not.

Why? Seriously, why? Why do we need to ensure that everyone lives and is healthy? What makes a human deserving of some right to live that a regular animal or plant does not? Someone mentioned social darwinism before. That's essentially where my beliefs come down. Humans, animals and plants all have the same ability to sink or swim in their environment.

And just to comment on other government services; government services are provided due to an implied consent of the majority that we want this service. At one time or another the majority has determined that we want roads and schools and police. The majority in this country has not decided they want the government to pay for our doctors. Now let's say, for the sake of argument, that I don't agree with government funded roads; all roads would become toll roads to pay for upkeep. I am now one of the minority who doesn't want what the majority does. It may turn out that the same thing happens with universal health care. But right now the majority does not want it (at least in any of the forms presented to them).

[J T]

ummm... i like nintendo games!

Thank you ieatramen, but our princess is in another thread.

[deathred]

I just don't see how we can even begin to try and start something this big without fixing the crappy public assistance programs we have in place now.

I don't see where this benefits our economy. I see how it will make it worse. People will try to save more and spend less because of the rise in taxes. And no one can say that this won't raise our taxes because the government can't just fund this out of their asses.

[Jrecee]

I just don't see how we can even begin to try and start something this big without fixing the crappy public assistance programs we have in place now.

I don't see where this benefits our economy. I see how it will make it worse. People will try to save more and spend less because of the rise in taxes. And no one can say that this won't raise our taxes because the government can't just fund this out of their asses.

Argument A: Pretty soon only the very well off will be able to afford healthcare
Argument B: This will raise taxes

A lot of political arguments I see come down to Black and White. You pick the side you agree most with along with all the pros and cons that come with it. Unfortunately the world is not black and white. There is no perfect solution that makes everyone get healthcare. We as people are flawed, so no matter what system we use, those flaws will be passed onto that system.

Does every human being deserve to get healthcare?
If so, whose responsibility is it to give them that healthcare?
Where does that money come from?
If we leave our system the way it is what will happen?

[DuManchu]

Here are my thoughts on healthcare.

1. Something needs to be done to make it more affordable/accessible
2. The gov't option is a decent idea, but it needs to be thought out bigtime
3. This whole "OH HOLY SHIT WE GOTTA GET THIS DONE NOW!!!1!!11!! OMG!!!!1" attitude Obama has pisses me off. Something this large in scale needs to be thought out, and re-done, and re-re-done, until it's a really solid plan. Either that or the different parts need to be staggered so we can see the effects in a slower manner.
4. Tort reform doesn't seem to do anything to insurance costs (Missouri has it, and apparently not much has changed to insurance costs).

As far as the public options goes I can see it going two ways. Either private insurance will become the luxury of the elite, or it will actually spur competition and lower costs of private healthcare (my money is on the former).

Basically, I think there are some good CONCEPTS in this, but they need to be very well thought out, not rocketed through as fast as possible. The public needs to hear the options, and our representatives need to listen to us (HA!).

I realize not everyone is going to see completely eye-to-eye, but I think something can be drawn up that is much less polarizing. You can't garner 51% support and call it good with something like this.

[isaacsquared]

The public option will definitely make private insurance something for the wealthier, when you consider that there is a $1000 tax if you want to have insurance besides the public option.

[Inazuma]

I don't know as much as I'd like to on this subject, but I'm going to make a comment anyway. I think nationwide healthcare would be a good thing overall. Personally speaking, it could be bad since I already get nice healthcare as a job benefit, but I prefer to look at the big picture.

Here is my idea to pull this off and try to make everyone happy:
- 100% free health care to everyone
- Legalize street drugs and include a massive "health tax" on them, which helps pay for medical services.
- Add a massive health tax on cigarettes as well.
- Available to take only once every 2 years, each American would have the opportunity to prove they are working towards staying healty by achieving certain goals in physical activities such as running a mile, pull-ups, etc. If they are deemed to be "healthy", they will be rewarded with tax breaks.

Doing it this way is great for multiple reasons. First off, everyone would get healthcare. Secondly, those who strive to be healthy wouldn't pay health taxes on drugs and they will get tax breaks for being fit. Last and perhaps most important of all, Americans would shed some pounds and start to care more about their health, which in turn would lessen the amount of money needed to spend on healthcare in the first place.

[Peffico]

Oh healthcare how you are such a touchy issue.

Before we decide something this big we need to look at how the U.S. can get out of debt. I mean I know it will take a very long time but still universal healthcare is going to take A LOT of money.

Money we of course don't have but spend anyway. Billions here to Israel billions here to people who aren't even looking for jobs. It is rather sad that we throw a lot of this money out the window when in fact we could be using it on better things.

This is how I feel the U.S. should prioritize.

1. Education (none of this no child left behind crap) When people are educated stuff seems to get done.
2. Turn a profit- We spend soooooo much every year with money we do not have. Lets get out the people that think they know what they are doing and actually put some business men in there that know how to turn a profit.
3. Health care- Makes everyone happy. And everything that can be said has been said here.
4. Obesity- ehhh you can figure this out.