The Fall of 2D and the Fall of Sega

[shadobeni]

Purely a hypothetical question. Does anyone think that there would still be a Sega console now if 2D games hadn't taken such a nosedive and co-existed with emerging 3D games that came with PS1's introduction?

It seems to me Sega's strengths were more in their 2D games and if the 3D revolution had not come as soon as it did the Saturn would've performed better and Sega might've redeemed themselves enough after the Sega CD/32X fiasco.

When looking in hindsight it's almost as if the emergence of 3D graphic blindsided Sega leaving them little time to figure out how to transition their 2D franchises into 3D.

[Original_Name]

If you ask me, the fall of Sega lies more in the hands of Sega of America than anything else.

Timeline:

The 32X coming out at all was a huge mistake, continued support of the Sega CD would have been a much better idea; Sega of Japan made the mistake of going with their domestic division's convoluted Saturn hardware (that we know today) instead of what was basically Nintendo 64 technology with a CD-Rom drive that Sega of America had been able to all-but secure, all in an effort to keep Sega of Japan employees from feeling like Sega preferred its American division; Sega of America made the terrible decision to launch the system early and with a $400 price point, immediately damaging the system's sales and reputation; to compensate, Sega of America hires Bernie Stolar (read: ), orchestrator of the Sony PlayStation's highly successful launch; Bernie makes public his view that the American public will not be interested in RPG's or 2D games (this apparently includes shmups of all renderings, as Radiant Silvergun, Thunderforce V, and Layer Section 2 were not given US support from Sega despite being predominantly 3D); Grandia sells over a million copies in Japan and is heralded as the "Final Fantasy VII killer", Bernie refuses to port the game or allow anyone else to port it, infuriating hardcore gamers' best friend: Working Designs; with seriously ailing sales, Bernie attempts to target the "hardcore gaming" demographic, stating that the most hardcore games are for the Saturn; hardcore gamers are baffled as the best hardcore games come over in teensy print-runs and quickly sky-rocket in price: Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shining Force III, Burning Rangers, Dragon Force (which had to be brought over by Working Designs, despite being created by Sega of Japan) and tremendous hardcore titles such as Grandia, Princess Crown, Radiant Silvergun, Bulk Slash, Shining Force Ep. 2 & 3, Sakura Taisen, Street Fighter Zero 3, Terra Phantastica, Metal Slug, Thunderforce V, Soukyugurentai, Dragon Force 2, and even the Mega Man series are left in Japan at the discretion of Bernie Stolar; Bernie Stolar is generally a piece of shit; the Sega Saturn does fantastically in Japan, handily beating the Nintendo 64 by means of the tremendous Segata Sanshiro advertising campaign and marketing itself to hardcore gamers by delivering... y'know... hardcore games; Bernie Stolar announces that Sega of America support of the Saturn will be cut and that the Saturn was a "still-born" and acts as if nothing ever could have been done to save it despite having an excellent role-model for how to save the Sega Saturn overseas; Sega of Japan keeps right along with the Saturn, doing everything right up until they release the Sega Dreamcast far too early; Sega makes literally its best decision since its inception by firing Bernie Stolar's stupid ass the day before the Sega Dreamcast's launch.

If I had been the President of Sega of America when Bernie Stolar had come in, I would have made the exact same claims he did, but delivered on them. Also: I would not have dropped support of the Saturn right before the Dreamcast came out; in fact, I would have made it stronger. Panzer Dragoon Saga would have been all over the media with extensive commercials. I would have made it THE killer-app, as Panzer Dragoon, Virtua Fighter 2, Sega Rally, NiGHTS into Dreams, Tomb Raider, Grandia, Bulk Slash, and Burning Rangers had been before it, with strong focus on titles such as Dragon Force, Virtual ON, Princess Crown, Street Fighter Zero 3, Guardian Heroes, Thunderforce V, The Shining Force III Trilogy, (a re-named) Soukyugurentai, Saturn Bomberman, Radiant Silvergun, and Sakura Taisen in game magazine advertisements. I think the Saturn could have easily overcome its hardware short-comings in the American market had they really given those hardcore games some support both in localization and advertising. I know that Sega of America had no way to control that Sonic Team just didn't wanna make a Sonic game, but they actively turned down JVC for a new ToeJam & Earl game and Novotrade/Appaloosa for a new Ecco the Dolphin game, which was a big mistake.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and I damn sure wouldn't have kept the system at $400 for very long.

Honestly, what the Saturn needed to save it was smart marketing centered around its strengths, which the American gamers have only recently begun to realize due to import-friendly fan/review sites such as this one and the advent of easy modding.

Sorry, I type walls of text.

[emwearz]

Sega would still be here if they didnt loose complete and utter faith in there userbase by releasing expensive products that only got a handful of releases. Everything they released after the Genesis pissed off its users, the Dreamcast was brillant, but the damage was all ready done.

[Droid party]

To Original_Name :

That post was amazing, I salute you Verbose though it may have been, it was brilliantly informative. Thank-you.

[Original_Name]

To Original_Name :

That post was amazing, I salute you Verbose though it may have been, it was brilliantly informative. Thank-you.

Thank you! Haha, can you tell that I've lost sleep over the subject at hand?

[jfrost]

While many Sega franchises couldn't make a smooth transition to 3D, originally 3D Sega franchises (Shenmue, Jet Set Radio, Panzer Dragoon, etc) are quite good.

[RyaNtheSlayA]

Finally, somebody else that realises Bernie Stolar the asstard killed Sega.

[Droid party]

Finally, somebody else that realises Bernie Stolar the asstard killed Sega.

I think most people concede that Stolar ruined sega. I mean telling the world that the saturn wasn't sega's future and that they were going to kill it off asap, ergo pissing off 3rd party dev's who had shitloads of cash sunk into upcoming projects is just thick. The 32x and mega-cd debacle was silly but certainly not fatal. The only positive that can be remotely attributed to him is the dc.

[Breetai]

Original_Name: PERFECTLY written. I salute you.

[samuraifez]

Great post Original_Name, I enjoyed it.