One Of Japan's Ugly Sides (56K Warning)

[grittykitty]

niiiiiiice post!

i hate those uyoku cars with a passion. i was eating at siddique (the indo-paki curry restaurant run by all non-japanese) in akihabara and the uyoku came and parked their van with the loudspeakers blaring for about 5 minutes. i wanted to destroy them.

[MrPopo]

Are you sure? I thought the Monroe Doctrine was to end relations with Europe. Wikipedia said this: "The Monroe Doctrine was a United States policy introduced on December 2, 1823, which said that further efforts by European governments to colonize land or interfere with states in the Americas would be viewed by the United States of America as acts of aggression requiring US intervention.[1] The Monroe Doctrine asserted that the Western Hemisphere was not to be further colonized by European countries, and that the United States would not interfere with existing European colonies nor in the internal concerns of European countries."

What you've just described isn't isolationism, so much as telling Europe to fuck off. The fact that we were willing to intervene and help out any other non-US American state that was being interfered with by a European country invalidates it as isolationsim.

[lisalover1]

Are you sure? I thought the Monroe Doctrine was to end relations with Europe. Wikipedia said this: "The Monroe Doctrine was a United States policy introduced on December 2, 1823, which said that further efforts by European governments to colonize land or interfere with states in the Americas would be viewed by the United States of America as acts of aggression requiring US intervention.[1] The Monroe Doctrine asserted that the Western Hemisphere was not to be further colonized by European countries, and that the United States would not interfere with existing European colonies nor in the internal concerns of European countries."

What you've just described isn't isolationism, so much as telling Europe to fuck off. The fact that we were willing to intervene and help out any other non-US American state that was being interfered with by a European country invalidates it as isolationsim.

Okay, so I misspoke. Still, in this context, my point remains valid.

[Ack]

Swastikas were also present in various eastern religions as signs of peace and well being long before the Nazis started using it.

Isn't it that the Nazis used a mirrored version of the common eastern swastika? That's why there wasn't a huge uproar when you look at Zelda dungeon 3 and realize it's a swastika.

I don't believe so. Asia uses one direction, and I believe Native Americans use a reversed for a similar symbol. I think the Nazis ended up using the Asian one. I could be wrong about that though.

To slag, North Korea's the easiest excuse for Japan remilitarizing, though if something were to happen and China or Russia go to war with us, Japan having a full blown military to fight on our side would be nice. And I believe the prime ministers have said in speeches that they were honoring their faceless dead. It still opens old wounds for the Chinese, who see the shrine as a sign of Japanese military oppression, and likely it will for a very long time, no matter what the Japanese say about it.

To lisalover, since I know this point will be made, it's also seen as a symbol for the US to begin asserting its own authority over South America. And at times, our interference has led to problems, such as our backing of specific regimes or outright hostility towards others, or in some cases our direct military involvement. While we felt we were protecting for our country, our actions would sometimes hurt their's. We backed horrendous dictators in an effort to better our own country while also believing we were protecting theirs from worse fates under communism that never had a chance to play out. It has lead to continued turmoil in South America, and shaky relations with many of their nations. And this has helped spawn the anti-American sentiment we see so often in South America.

Personally, I hope we can see improvements in our relations with South America, though that's going to take time. Frankly, we now have a few "damned if we do, damned if we don't" situations, like what to do about Hugo Chavez or the FARC or the drug trade. Do we interfere, risking the ire of SA nations and likely leading to a population more willing to accept Communism or other anti-American groups if only to spite us, or do we let them sit, where they may directly impact and endanger our own country?

[lisalover1]

Swastikas were also present in various eastern religions as signs of peace and well being long before the Nazis started using it.

Isn't it that the Nazis used a mirrored version of the common eastern swastika? That's why there wasn't a huge uproar when you look at Zelda dungeon 3 and realize it's a swastika.

I don't believe so. Asia uses one direction, and I believe Native Americans use a reversed for a similar symbol. I think the Nazis ended up using the Asian one. I could be wrong about that though.

To slag, North Korea's the easiest excuse for Japan remilitarizing, though if something were to happen and China or Russia go to war with us, Japan having a full blown military to fight on our side would be nice. And I believe the prime ministers have said in speeches that they were honoring their faceless dead. It still opens old wounds for the Chinese, who see the shrine as a sign of Japanese military oppression, and likely it will for a very long time, no matter what the Japanese say about it.

To lisalover, since I know this point will be made, it's also seen as a symbol for the US to begin asserting its own authority over South America. And at times, our interference has led to problems, such as our backing of specific regimes or outright hostility towards others, or in some cases our direct military involvement. While we felt we were protecting for our country, our actions would sometimes hurt their's. We backed horrendous dictators in an effort to better our own country while also believing we were protecting theirs from worse fates under communism. It has lead to continued turmoil in South America, and shaky relations with many of their nations. And this has helped spawn the anti-American sentiment we see so often in South America.

Personally, I hope we can see improvements in our relations with South America, though that's going to take time. Frankly, we now have a few "damned if we do, damned if we don't" situations, like what to do about Hugo Chavez or the FARC or the drug trade. Do we interfere, risking the ire of SA nations and likely leading to a population more willing to accept Communism or other anti-American groups if only to spite us, or do we let them sit, where they may directly impact and endanger our own country?

I never said the USA was anywhere near perfect. In fact, one of the main points of this whole thread is to shatter illusions and misconceptions of other countries. The US is guilty for the mistakes it has made, but every country makes mistakes. Every country has it's dark times, and we acknowledge and learn from them. I never, ever would believe that any one nation is superior or inferior to other ones.

[Ack]

I never said the USA was anywhere near perfect. In fact, one of the main points of this whole thread is to shatter illusions and misconceptions of other countries. The US is guilty for the mistakes it has made, but every country makes mistakes. Every country has it's dark times, and we acknowledge and learn from them. I never, ever would believe that any one nation is superior or inferior to other ones.

I'm not trying to say you did, I was just bringing up an interpretation of it before someone else did, because they might be more hostile towards you over it. I know you're not trying to insult anybody's country. It's cool, man.

[lisalover1]

Sorry. Sometimes I get a bit worked up when I'm in a debate.

[jfrost]

Are you sure? I thought the Monroe Doctrine was to end relations with Europe. Wikipedia said this: "The Monroe Doctrine was a United States policy introduced on December 2, 1823, which said that further efforts by European governments to colonize land or interfere with states in the Americas would be viewed by the United States of America as acts of aggression requiring US intervention.[1] The Monroe Doctrine asserted that the Western Hemisphere was not to be further colonized by European countries, and that the United States would not interfere with existing European colonies nor in the internal concerns of European countries."

Yup, it was the US government way of securing it's own sphere of influence. That's a far cry from isolationism.

Also, you're right, Voltaire never said that, Francois Marie Arouet did.

No, he didn't. It's falsely attributed to him.

[Hatta]

Right wingers are the same everywhere, wrong.

[Zeitgeist]

Being German, married to a Japanese woman and living many years in Tokyo:you can imagine i am quite sensitve when it comes to this topic.
Right wings and fascists you got in every country. It seems like every society needs a certain percentage of idiots and nationalists (nationalism being the main reason that human kind is not moving forward).
What is different in Japan then? I never saw people going into opposition to this idiots. Usually in other countries when it becomes known that there is a demonstration of right wings, there are quickly some rivaling demonstrations of people who don't like fascist ideas.
I never saw something like that in Japan. Of course they are all polite and try to avoid trouble. But there are occasions where one should not be quiet anymore. That really creeps me. What would happen if the government becomes fascist? Everybody be quiet and follow the orders?

Just the damn loudspeakers should be enough reason for people to kick them out.

Great photos hashiriya! The thing with those hardcore fascist is: They are so ridiculous. Look at the Fuehrer on top of this car. This is costume play?
Even look at Hitler now. Little man screaming. It just makes you wonder how anybody can take them seriously. Maybe everybody around just should start laughing at them.

PS: Oh, and pardon me if my English should be odd.