Anyone else think this guy is crazy?

[RemyC]

Mr. Popo is right, just because you play guitar hero doesn't mean you can't play a real instrument

I never said you couldn't. I just don't understand why would waste time with guitar hero, when you can spend that time learning to play a real instrument.

To say that playing a video game version of a real life hobby is a waste of time and that people who play them just don't feel like doing whatever hobby that may be in real life is silly.

I never said this either. I am strictly talking about rhythm games.

I don't care about the argument that playing a FPS requires one to master the controls and so it is somehow exempt from your argument

Pretty much everything, but rhythm games are exempt from my argument.

Why has no one yet explained to me, why they believe that I am wrong about a Guitar Hero/Rock Band guitar being a dumbed down guitar?

he only difference I see here is that everyone else seems to be arguing that people should play whatever they want as long as it is fun for them and that making judgments about that person's real-life personality is unfair

Some people find having sex with little children fun...

Remy, you unfortunately have your own tastes and it seems that anyone who doesn't agree with them is automatically wrong.

The same can be said about you. No one has given me a reason to accept Rock Band/Guitar Hero has a game, other than it being, "fun".
I literally see people playing along to quality songs...but with a dinky guitar, and 5 buttons.
In every other simulation game their is something more complex than following a rhythm. Following a rhythm is literally what you do when playing guitar. The skill directly translates. The only reason why a Guitar Hero/Rock band player can't pick up a real guitar and play it is, because they've spent all their time with a dinky guitar. Had they been spending the time with a real guitar, they would probably have some legitimate skills to show for it.
If the next Guitar Hero/Rock Band game, had a controller with a full fretboard to play with, as opposed to the 5 dinky buttons...maybe then I'd acknowledge it as a legitimate game.

[vash23n]

I am not arguing that you should accept rhythm games as legitimate, I am arguing that no one else has the right to tell someone else what games to enjoy just because they do not like them or just because they do not think they are legitimate. And again, as someone who already knows how to play the guitar and for everyone here who knows how to play an instrument, does that mean you should not play and enjoy rockband or guitar hero? If a friend comes over and asks you to play should you say "No, here have a seat and let me teach you some chords."? I know a couple of people who were inspired to take guitar lessons because they enjoyed guitar hero. Does that not give the game some legitimacy?

Now if you do not like these games that is fine and you have every right not to buy them/play them. As for having sex with little kids, even though I was strictly talking about video games, perhaps I should clarify my statement and say that everyone has the right to do whatever they - either when it comes to real life or video games - as long as it does not interfere with the safety or happiness or general well-being of another person or group of people. Now if you say that the fact that people play guitar hero/rock band/DDR causes you to be unhappy, then I think you are a little too obsessed and need to let go.

[MrPopo]

Some people find having sex with little children fun...

Did you really use this as an argument?

[alienjesus]

This shouldn't even be an argument. I play music, but if i want to learn to play a new song, it takes me a fair amount of time and effort to do so. There is a lot of satisfaction at the end, but its a fundamentally different feeling to playing guitar hero. Guitar hero gives me instant satisfaction. If i want to play a song, i just plug in and go. The format its presented in makes for some fast thinking fun, as i never normally bother to learn the guitar hero songs, so i becomes a kind of twitch gameplay, similar to a shooter imo. I would never claim that the guitar hero guitar is anything BUT a dumbed down version of a real one, but that doesnt mean its not fun to use. Sometimes people dont want to put the time and effort required to learn a song on a real instrument. Sometimes people don't have real friends to have jam sessions with, or appropriate venues and ability to perform in front of people. Guitar hero allows you dumbed down versions of the experience, but the effort to satisfaction ratio is much more forgiving imo.

[RemyC]

I am arguing that no one else has the right to tell someone else what games to enjoy just because they do not like them or just because they do not think they are legitimate

I am not telling anybody what to do, or how to think. I am stating my opinions about Guitar Hero/Rock Band, and instead of countering my arugments you all get huffy puffy about how I shouldn't tell you guys how to think.

I know a couple of people who were inspired to take guitar lessons because they enjoyed guitar hero

They appear to be the few that get it.

Some people find having sex with little children fun...

Did you really use this as an argument?

I am quite aware of how extreme and off topic my remark was.

Could someone PLEASE explain to me how to play Guitar Hero/Rock Band?
Then explain to me why they think that it is so radically different from playing an actual guitar.?

[MrPopo]

I am arguing that no one else has the right to tell someone else what games to enjoy just because they do not like them or just because they do not think they are legitimate

I am not telling anybody what to do, or how to think. I am stating my opinions about Guitar Hero/Rock Band, and instead of countering my arugments you all get huffy puffy about how I shouldn't tell you guys how to think.

There are numerous instances of you saying "Put down Rock Band and pick up a real guitar." The way you word your posts you are not presenting an opinion so much as giving out a directive.

[fast]

Ok I sat by for a bit but let me jump in.

I am like Remy in that I not a big fan of rhythm games, sans Samba de Amigo and the occasional DDR. I will also admit that one of the reasons I do not like them is that I am utterly terrible at them – which in theory could be corrected with times. I believe that Guitar Hero is a slowed down version of Guitar Freaks and that both pale to playing the actual instruments. However I understand why a lot of people enjoy Guitar Hero over actually learning how to play the guitar.

This understanding is based on my casual observations of friends and family who have succumbed to the title over the past few years. I am not counting Rockband since my exposure to it is minimal – played it once without sound Any Way You Want It is just that good of a song.

Many, if not most, people play Guitar Hero since it gives the feel of being good at the guitar without devoting a lot of time to it. Is it a sham or copout, well yes. Is it a waste of time, no. Not everyone has the time, determination, or physical prowess to play a musical instrument. Long ago I hurt left hand fairly badly and I have trouble gripping medium sized items for an extended period of time or else I will get shooting pain in my hand and arm. Examples of medium sized items: the neck of a Guitar (real or plastic), a push broom, and a cane. So actually learning how to play the guitar would have to be done in rough ten minute increments, which as you all know would take an incredibly long amount of time. Sure I could do it and be in a lot of pain, but with my already hectic life it would be difficult and frankly not worth it (I am however looking into the Piano because for some reason it does not hurt my hands). I know I could try to play it like a steel guitar, which is what I do for Guitar Hero, but even that gets tedious. Ok so that is a fairly extreme example.

As to the question of why the average gamer would play it. Well because it fits into the modern culture. We live in a fast food world. We want our food instantly, our tv on our schedule, and our games with us at all times. Guitar Hero is an exemplary example of this in that while a real guitar may be a far more rewarding experience after a long time of dedication, Guitar Hero gives a similar reward at far less time involved. Two hours with a guitar and you may be able to play Pop Goes the Weasel or other similar tunes, two hours with Guitar Hero and you can play Metallica’s One – for the record, I still cannot play it even on Guitar Hero...

Remy you are obviously a real musician. You have the talent and amazing skill to make something incredibly beautiful. Many of us do not for whatever reason, however Guitar Hero gives us the illusion that we too have that talent.


But to get back on topic.
Last weekend I was at an anime convention in South Alabama with a fellow Nintendo fan. We were promoting our little analog and retrogaming ditty – June 27th at Georgia Tech www.Momoconontour.com . And to draw people over to our table we had a few things on display. An original Gameboy with Tetris in it, a storage box for Urza’s saga (a Magic expansion), and a Powerglove signed by Robert Englund (yes she went there). Being that E3 had just finished we were shooting the breeze about gaming with anyone who came by. The overwhelming opinion of the congers was that while the Wii is great for casual games, it will never take over the market because the 360 just has so much going for it. And while some of them understood that the historically important demographics are shot thanks to Nintendo’s new strategy, the vast majority foresaw Natal as the end of Nintendo. I know I know, so many holes in the argument, but if that is what the general populace of geeks believes well it is understandable that this guy said that. Lets face it, honor and loyalty in ones hobbies only goes so far. If you can make a lot more money by making radical statements, most people will do it. Actually a lot of people would say it just to see how far itll go (I think they still call them shockjocks).

To me E3 was a tad disappointing. Nintendo pulled out some really neat things and the PS3 wiimote is really cool. But overall it was just kinda more of the same. Maybe itll pick back up when the new consoles are announced.

[Luke]

Wowzers.
I just back read about the Guitar Hero "discussion". I think there is an obvious separation from games and reality, that's why people play video games. I play classical piano, and if there was a piano hero, or even better, a key-tar hero, I could care less if people played and excelled at it, without actually learnig how to play the piano. I might be mistaken, but it seems that was the gist of the argument.

One of my favorite games of all time is Ninja Gaiden (NES).
If a Ninja went online and started blasting the game saying, "No longer are kids actually trying to be ninjas, they just want to play as one without the skill and practice of a true ninja", I think everyone would laugh at the guy.

It's just good that those who want people who play video games to have the same talent in real life don't play GTA.

[RemyC]

I am arguing that no one else has the right to tell someone else what games to enjoy just because they do not like them or just because they do not think they are legitimate

I am not telling anybody what to do, or how to think. I am stating my opinions about Guitar Hero/Rock Band, and instead of countering my arugments you all get huffy puffy about how I shouldn't tell you guys how to think.

There are numerous instances of you saying "Put down Rock Band and pick up a real guitar." The way you word your posts you are not presenting an opinion so much as giving out a directive.

Because you guys dont respond to my questions...So I decided to take another approach, after illustrating my thoughts about Guitar hero/Rock band.

I shall restate my stance...again.

Guitar Hero/Rock band plays much like a real musician would play their instrument. You have to follow a tempo, and strum a rhythm, while positioning your fingers on chords. Since challenge is what makes games enjoyable (explained earlier in the "discussion"), Wouldn't it be far more enjoyable to spend the time learning a real instrument?
With responses like, "It provides instant gratification since I can play the song right away", I believe that you are selling yourself short. From here on I will not reply in this discussion, unless someone brings up an argument about me being wrong about The guitar hero/Rock band controllers not being dumbed down guitars.

[alienjesus]

And as stated before, a fair few people disagree with the idea of challenge being the enjoyable element of video games. The experience also matters, and guitar hero gives us the esperience of being awesome rock stars, which, i might add, the majority of people who learn the real guitar, will not experience at all.