The Wrestling Thread

[Raging Justice]

I remember when Double or Nothing used to be an important show for AEW. Now it just feels like...another AEW pay per view.

[Raging Justice]

Hangman is one of the very few people in AEW with a compelling character and story. Ospreay has just become a glorified spot monkey. I don't know why anyone is surprised by that outcome.

Ospreay is fun to watch, but I don't care about him. He's just another guy.

[Raging Justice]

Okay, I watched Double or Nothing, and it was painful. My god, why are AEW pay per views so damn long? Anarchy in the Arena was great. Hangman vs. Ospreay was great. Everything else on the pay per view didn't need to happen. The Stretcher match didn't need to happen on the same show where you had the far superior Anarchy match. The six man that Takeshita was in was a Collision match. No one gives a fuck about either women's title match as we're all so sick and tired of these predictable Mercedes Mone/Toni Storm title defenses. [EDIT] Yeah, I forgot that the Mone match was for the Owen. whatever[/EDIT] Fuck both of them and their Stranglehold on the women's division. They got outshined anyway by Keilani Jordan, Sol Ruca, Jordynne Grace and Stephanie Vaquer on Battleground. The tag title match was stupid and I still have no idea how MJF and Lashley ended up being wasted in the tag division.

NXT's Battleground was a better show, with an actual title change, something we used to get in AEW. I hope Hangman beats Mox and we set up some nice feuds for him so we can at least take one step towards course correcting the sinking ship that is AEW.

[Raging Justice]

Is Stephanie Vaquer heading to the main roster? Her star power is pretty obvious to everyone.



I don't care about Jacy Jayne, but it's nice to get a shock title win every now and then (hint hint Tony Kahn). The show actually had TWO of them, not to mention the one over the weekend.

Alright, my last post for a while. I feel like I'm spamming now. Just trying to keep this thread on life support. Wonder whatever happened to the people that started it. Depressing the state of forums these days.

[Reprise]

She's definitely heading to the main roster, I feel. As you said, her star power is obvious to see. Great in the ring, looks great and has tons of charisma.

Surprising title changes are nice, but I actually feel quite good about AEW at the moment to be honest. I don't think our opinions on DoN or the company at the moment could be further apart haha, not that I don't still have plenty of criticisms though.

[Raging Justice]

Kind of fits what I have seen online. Some people think AEW has been on a great run recently, while others still think the product sucks and is at it's lowest point ever. I'm in the second category. I have seen no change in AEW whatsoever. Misusing talent, no good story lines other than Hangman (the most consistent storyteller in the company), fat/bloated pay per views, long, boring title reigns featuring stagnant talent who aren't elevating anyone but themselves (Mercedes, Storm, and Mox have helped absolutely no one), terrible gimmicks (Toni Storm), pointless matches with people no one cares about, aimless booking, a dead women's division, a dead tag team division, Adam Cole's very presence in the company, secondary titles that feel meaningless, a serious lack of joshi wrestlers (not that they'd get to do anything anyway since Kahn only cares about Storm and Mercedes) and no creativity or imagination. What happened to the company that first did the Jericho Cruise? And first did Stadium Stampede? And came up with those neat, interesting TV segments for the Inner Circle? People shit on Jericho these days, but you can feel the lack of creative input from him these days. He used to come up with some uniquely entertaining things in AEW. Now AEW just wants to do pure wrestling and nothing else.

I think this is the baseline for AEW going forward. They will never have that almost universal love that the company once had. You're either in one camp or the other with how you feel about their product. Some people are still acting like AEW is the best pro wrestling company ever, and others feel that is has become pure trash. I also don't think the company will ever have any buzz surrounding it again. I firmly believe that WWE as a whole is putting out a better product even though I do have a lot of complaints about it. Every few weeks WWE gives me something to talk about, like the recent NXT title changes. AEW just continues to push its boring status quo week after week after week after week after week. WWE also generally has better characters than AEW, though to AEW's credit they do have two characters that are far more complex than anyone in WWE in the form of Hangman and Swerve Strickland...and to some extent MJF as well. AEW has too many generic "I love AEW and will do anything for this company" babyfaces and too many "I'm just a nasty person who wants to piss off the fans" heels.

On another note, seeing all these former AEW guys in WWE (particularly on their C brand NXT) further cements the feeling that AEW has lost its luster. People don't want to stay there anymore. I even had someone tell me how weird it is to see Malakai in WWE (even though he technically was already there years ago)

What Tony does at the next PPV will be critical. I already see people speculating that Mox won't drop the title until Darby comes back and a lot of people aren't happy about it. For one thing, everyone is sick of Mox as champ. For another, they want to see Hangman with the title. We'll see what Tony Kahn does. We all know how stubborn he is though. If he doesn't pull the trigger at the next PPV people are gonna be pissed...again. I don't know how many times AEW can keep getting away with this, and Hangman has had the best build up of anyone so far as the guy to take down Mox.

[Reprise]

Different opinions and different wants from wrestling, I guess. They have got enough hooks in me and got me invested in enough that I enjoy it.

AEW's PPV bloat only bothers me when it bothers me and it is quite rare. I thought this year's Double or Nothing breezed by. I only started getting antsy during the Callis family tag-team match, because it was very much a Collision match and Adam Cole and whatever his faction is called is dull.

I 100% would (and do) take that bloat over WWE's approach to PLEs though. Thank god I don't have to pay for WWE's shows (not that I am above sailing the high seas), because I can probably count on one hand the number I have watched in the last couple of years that I have really enjoyed. All Triple H has done is made their product more consistent, but in doing so has lessened the highs. At least when Vince ran things, although there would be so many boneheaded decisions, every now and again they would do something incredible. I can't think of anything WWE as of late that has wowed me. Even Cena's heel turn ended up being crap.

I am a glass half full kinda person when it comes to AEW right now. I take the good and don't let the bad bother me all too much.

For example, I absolutely do agree the tag-team division is dead. They really need to do something to restore it. But, being glass half full, I love the Hurt Syndicate and if they have to build up the tag division before they are defeated, so be it. I also am enjoying MJF's antics with the Hurt Syndicate, because you just know both sides have an agenda, but I have no idea what either one side's true motive is, so that intrigues me.

Hangman's current arc is one of the most compelling things in all of wrestling right now. And it's been unfolding each week over the last two years. Watching him lose his confidence and then how Swerve took advantage of that moment and how it drove Hangman to become the thing he thought he was standing against is compelling. I remember people shitting on how Christopher Daniels just "randomly" retired on a "random" television match and how "lol AEW just randomly booked a death match out of no where", but none of these things were random. This was all part of the storyline. The fact that Hangman had sunk so far low into depression and had become so full of anger and hatred, that even a minor confrontation with Christopher Daniels led Hangman to challenging him to a death match and then he ended up brutalising his mentor so badly, that he retired him then fed into this character arc. Watching him then becoming swamped with guilt and sorrow, realising what he had done was so compelling to watch, which was further cemented by those moments with Swerve when the latter finally admitted he was wrong and "deserved" Hangman's anger. That moment seemed to signify that they had come to the realisation that they now have more that unites them that what divides them.

It is subtle stuff like this that means the audience doesn't even realise they are gradually being made to root for Hangman.

Him winning was genuinely shocking too. I know you said it wasn't, but check out the betting odds. Everyone thought Ospreay was winning.

I don't know why people are still thinking Darby is going to be the one beat Mox. It's such a dumb idea. What, so the guy who Mox already beat like a year ago in order to get his title shot is going to come back out of nowhere and beat him? Why? So we can say the storyline has come full circle? Darby has been off tv for months. They would have to spend months building him up for a months. Nah, that would be dumb. I really hope that isn't the plan...

I have seen other theories that Mox will retain and then lose to Ospreay at Forbidden Door in London, or Hangman will win but lose it a month later to Ospreay in London. Both of those are dumb in my opinion, because if they had wanted Ospreay to win the title in his home town and be the face of the company, then it would have made more sense to do it at All In and keep it in London.

I really hope Mox doesn't win, but I do have that horrible feeling in the back of my mind that they aren't going to pull the trigger on Ospreay until they want him to win the title, so Hangman could be chosen so they can have Moxley win... I think Hangman will win though.

As for the other stuff, I do agree that AEW does lack some good characters and too many of their faces are "I love this company and represent the spirit of AEW" bla bla bla and too many heels are one dimensional "I do bad stuff, because". Some definitely do lack depth.

So I do have complaints and sometimes sit in the middle (it blows my mind that DoN 25 is being called "an all timer" by some fans and is currently the top rated AEW PPV of all time on Cagematch I think), but I do think it was a very good show.

[Limewater]

For whatever it's worth, I never watch wrestling. I find it kind of fascinating, but I don't really have the time to keep up with it, and it seems like you really need to follow it to get most of the enjoyment from it.
So I actually do enjoy reading this thread to see the commentary and the highlight gifs. I just don't have anything to offer on the topic other than to say that I think WWF Wrestlemania isnt' as bad as people say it is. I think I'd have been mad to have paid fifty bucks for it in the eighties, though.

[Raging Justice]

Well, let me do a positive post. I'm just going to pose a question. Who do you see as breakout stars of 2025 OR people who maybe got a new lease on life from maybe a change in creative direction, new feud/storyline, etc. Here's my choices. Maybe you'll agree or maybe have some other ones. There's a lot of women in this post. That wasn't by design, it's just that the women have really been killing it in 2025:

Harley

Harley Cameron is literally the best thing in AEW's women's division even if maybe her in-ring isn't as amazing as some people. In fact, she may be the most entertaining woman in both AEW and WWE right now. Sad to here about her recent injury. Harley totally gets that her job is to be an ENTERTAINER. She's a good example of "sports entertainment" done right. The singing, the puppetry, the different personas, I think her character embodies the idea of "show business" and being a celebrity better than Toni Storm does. Harley feels like more than a wrestler. She's a star



Stephanie Vaquer.

For all the hype that Giulia came to WWE with, I feel like it's Steph who has taken WWE by storm. She's over, especially when she does that thing where she repeatedly drives her opponent's head into the mat. I'm not a huge fan of it but it's definitely a very over move. She looks like a goddamn movie star and has an epic entrance, and she is very good in the ring. They even said on commentary last Tuesday that she may be the hottest female star in all of WWE right now and they have fittingly given her some cool nicknames like "La Primera" and "The Dark Angel".



Her recent shocking title loss seems like an excuse to fast track her to the main roster. The way they handled it was perfect, with the ring announcer looking so shocked that it took him a moment to announce her loss. That speaks volumes about how well she has been booked.

Willow Nightingale

Willow is like the only person who hasn't suffered from the complete burial of the women's division by Toni Storm and Mercedes, and I think it's because she's largely been apart from it. She's been involved in the top storyline in the company, taking surprising bumps from the world champion and even busting out offense on one of the Young Bucks during Anarchy in the Arena. She's legit been pushing some gender boundaries and making history in AEW in recent weeks and she legit feels like the most badass women in AEW. I think Anarchy in the Arena solidified that. Willow's too awesome to be just stuck in the women's division. She's been playing with the boys.



The Hurt Syndicate

While I have issues with Lashley being kind of wasted in the tag division, a division which they aren't even elevating, there's no denying these guys are over. MVP is a fantastic talker and that damn catchphrase and music is so over. "We hurt people. We hurt people"

I'm not sure I like the MJF storyline, but there's a lot of good things AEW can do with the Hurt Syndicate if they play their cards right. I'll give the MJF thing a chance



Hangman

I'm happy to see Hangman kind of back on the trajectory of being the protagonist of AEW. His heel run gave him a much needed edge, and the Christopher Daniels thing has been kind of a nice touch in how he's using the Fallen Angel's moves in his matches. His Double or Nothing match with Ospreay was phenomenal and pretty much perfect other than the table botch which was no one's fault. We'll see where things go from here with his up coming title match. I don't know if we'll ever get a more iconic image in AEW history than the burning house. Oh, and fuck CM Punk. There's not a damn thing Hangman ever needed to learn from Punk.



Ricochet

Man, he's really found himself in AEW. I don't think he's EVER been this entertaining in WWE. It took a little time, but I think he's really delivering on his potential right now.



Mike Bailey

His ring work has been great since arriving in AEW, though I've never seen a bad match from him even before he arrived there. He has kind of a unique style that works for him and is fun to watch and he works well with any opponent. I went back and watched his DON match with Okada and it might be the best match Okada has had in AEW. The Crane Kick thing is a little cheesy but that's okay. I was glad that AEW put him and Bricoe in a match so that they could capitalize on both of them doing it. Would have been a missed opportunity if they never did that. I don't know how high his ceiling is in AEW, but I know that his matches will always entertain.



Saya Kamitani

After having a fantastic and historic match with the legendary Tam Nakano on one of the company's biggest shows ever, there's no denying what a big deal she is in that company now. Saya's currently the unquestionable top dog in Stardom and one of the few women (maybe the only woman other than her dance partner Tam) to get a higher than five star match rating from Meltzer



Iyo Sky

I kind of feel like she's having a bit of a career resurgence. Her three way match was literally the best thing on Wrestlemania and earned one of Meltzer's rare 5 star ratings. She then followed that up with a strong match with possibly the biggest thing in the division in Stephanie Vaquer the following Monday. Iyo looks like she's having the time of her life in her matches. There's an enthusiastic energy she displays that few other people can match. When Iyo smiles, it makes you smile. Iyo is going to be a Hall of Famer, both in WWE and for women's wrestling in general. She's done amazing work in Stardom, Marigold, Lucha Underground, and NXT.



Chelsea Greene

Chelsea made history being the first US champ. Her presidential gimmick is hilarious no matter what your politics are, and adding the "Secret HERvice" to her act only made it better. Chelsea is one of the hardest working women in WWE and constantly puts up videos on social media to get herself over. It's a shame they wasted her title loss on bland, boring as hell Zelina Vega, who also busted up Chelsea's nose with a botched 619. In true Chelsea fashion though, she's made the nose injury work for her. Whatever you give Chelsea she will spin into gold



Roxanne Perez

She's taken some losses recently, but Roxanne nearly won the Royal Rumble (lasting longer than any woman in history) and is in the big leagues on Raw now in an intriguing story line involving Dominick, Liv Morgan, and the Judgement Day. I have felt that WWE has been high on Roxanne for a VERY long time and have really been patient in allowing her to grow and improve in NXT knowing full well that they would elevate her at some point when she was ready. Roxanne has never disappointed when WWE put her in big situations and I think she has a long bright future in WWE that will no doubt include a world title win or maybe a Money in the Bank cash in. There's a reason she's called "The Prodigy". I hate her finishing move though.



Liv Morgan

Liv is in the peak of her career. She's never been as good as she is now, and even after losing the women's world title still feels like a critical part of Monday Night Raw. I hated Liv once, but my God has she turned me around. She's breaking records as a three time women's tag champ on Raw and the first woman to win the WWE Women's Crown Jewel championship. She's a two time former world champion now, so she's definitely a main eventer, and she's one of the most entertaining and fun to watch characters in WWE. She's really found her niche perfectly as a heel. She's also the one holding the Judgement Day together, though I feel like Finn Balor is plotting against her and using Roxanne Perez to do it. She may also have the sexiest ass in WWE. Hell, she just filmed a movie in Japan. She's a star now.

[Reprise]

Speaking of Harley, her injury is allegedly a storyline, but was used to write her off of tv for a while. It's a shame. I agree that she is a phenomenal wrestler. So much star power and charisma in her. Her feud with Mercedes was hilarious, as was their recent pairing.

And I agree about Willow essentially being able to side-step the women's titles scene and hang in the main overarching storyline with the Deathriders. Willow deserves to get a big babyface run with the women's title soon.