RPGs in general going downhill?

[Zork]

Thanks for clarifying. I think you just aren't going to find a really good narrative in these games. They get long winded like Front Mission or FF Tactics and full of cliches and unfinished like Xenogears. My opinion is that companies won't break out of the cliche Jap/D&D mold any time soon for numerous reasons.

1. They don't think that games where the story is the most important element will sell well
2. It would take too long to develop such games to be profitable
3. The game buying Japanese public seem to crave only a few different versions of RPG stories and especially the turn based mechanics (see reactions to the changes with DQ9 and FF12)
4. Game development management is not often structured to reward the risk takers and visionaries. (Capcom's Clover studio and Namco's Katamari broke this trend)
5. The writers/designers for a games story/world are not usually lauded. Producers like Miyamoto, Will Wright, Sid Meier and Kojima get credit.
6. We keep buying them so they keep making them
7. Maybe you should be looking at the adventure games genre.

I agree that the cliches are getting a bit old. Its interesting to note that Valkyrie Profile is a remake of an old PSX game so it can't count as new. Personally, I recently found Breath of Fire 5 and some of the Nippon Ichi games to have a fresher story. Aren't there any games that you've played lately (RPG or not) that had a satisfying story?

I actually knew that about VP before I bought it, but I never played it because I didn't want to pay +$100 USD for a copy or anything like that. I agree with your points but about point 1, I've always thought of RPGs as being a very story driven genre of games, I mean like I said earlier in here "RPGs are Role Playing Games, if the role you're playing is boring what is the point of playing it?" Because I think if thats the case, all you're left with is a bunch of game mechanics and thats it.

I really enjoyed Clover Studios it's a shame they were shut down

But I should also say RPGs were never really my strong genre, I've played a lot of them but usually not too many end up on my favorite list. I am actually more inclined to Adventure games anyway, it's actually my strongest genre probably, that and Fighting, Survival Horror and Action. I've also always been a big fan of Arcade like games, thanks to Sega and Street Fighter, and I guess this explains why I was never too big on RPGs anyway.

As for the last newest game I played that I thought had a good story...it would have to be God of War. I have Psychonauts, Okami and the newest Splinter Cell and a few other newer games I've gotten recently but I've not gone through them yet.

[neohx_7]

I like when you compared the state of RPGs to Hollywood earlier because like Hollywood a game has to make a TON of money for it to be considered successful. You and me may buy up games with really good stories which may not have much in the special effects department. Unfortunately, that won't make them successful enough monetarily and independent games seem to be more focused on gameplay anyways. I really didn't buy Alien Hominid for GCN because of the story and you just don't see many people releasing indie console games. Indie movies and music on the other hand seem to be able to find sustainability.

[Zork]

Ya, I do like what Microsoft is doing by giving a small window of oppertunity to indie developers anyway, it's nice to see. But I feel I should clear another thing up, whenever I buy or I'm preparing to play an RPG, I am expecting a decent story, anything else I usually don't, it's for fun or because I'm a long time fan or I was simply wanting to try something else.

[metaleggman]

I really didn't buy Alien Hominid for GCN because of the stories and you just don't see many people releasing indie console games. Indie movies and music on the other hand seem to be able to find sustainability.

But that's because you don't have to buy thousand dollar development kits or an expense development computer (such as getting a graphics card like a firegl). With indie music, you just need a basic computer that can record music and make beats or mix stuff. With indie movies, you can truly just get a mini DV, you don't have to go an get a super 16.
That's why most indie or dojounshi (am I spellin' or usin the right term for the dudes who make the cool homebrew shumps and fighters?) game developers do stuff for the PC, where they can get free development kits or get cheap ones, like the quake 3 engine.

[Zalphier]

*doujinshi, or just doujin. Indie game development is getting closer to the hands of many as time goes on. People are creating inviroments and simpler coding languages, allowing people to create decent games.(for example) RPGmaker(pc ones) Game Maker, Click and Play, Dark Basic...etc