E3 2018 Discussion

[casterofdreams]

I am most excited for that game. And it was confirmed that it will be played in a first person perspective; a plus for me.

[Exhuminator]

We shouldn't censor, but we should also realize that people have the right to feel distaste or unease with representations of violence in media and can also choose to criticize or avoid such media if they so desire.

I don't recall Saving Private Ryan's trailer intensely focusing on its war gore scenes, nor Schindler's List focusing on the abuse scenes of the Jews. Yet that's the equivalent of what The Last of Us 2's trailer does. If TLOU2 would have even half the decency of the writing of either of those two films, then at least its overtly gratuitous violence would have some purposeful context. Rather its shocking high definition violence is meant to excite the lowest common denominator's basal ganglia, if we're being honest. A sea of Alex DeLarges just waiting to wallow in its viciousness. And that's why we can't have nicer things made at the same level of graphical fidelity. For the record I felt the same way about 2013's Tomb Raider and its myriad ridiculous death scenes for Lara.

I get where Dave is coming from, but I disagree with him. We did not have stuff remotely like this in 1993/2003:



That is very far from being abstract now, and I don't see it seeming abstract ten years from now.

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All that said, I'm not trying to say that games like this shouldn't be allowed to exist. If you want to spend your money on this stuff, that's your business. I personally wish that even half the effort that goes into graphics like this, artificially simulating violence like this, was instead spent on quality writing and recreating expansive beauty, rather than pure darkness and death. I have never seen this kind of money spent on something overtly positive in video game land.

[Sarge]

Honestly, this gen hasn't been as good to me as far as AAA releases. I'm sitting on around 200 total games for PS3 and 360, I figure. By comparison, I might have maybe 40 games for PS4, and some of those are remasters, or physical releases of indie titles.

However, the indie scene has been good to me. Old school gaming is still alive, so I get stuff I want to play still.

I'm not actually going to choose a best generation right now, as there have been some great titles in all of them. But this is the first one where the state of AAA games has really diverged from what I would prefer to play. Now get off my dang lawn!

Also, I agree with Ex in that I'm not calling for censorship. I'm just noting that I have personal thresholds, and it's very possible this game has crossed it for me. I'd still love to play it, but I don't know if I will.

[dsheinem]

We shouldn't censor, but we should also realize that people have the right to feel distaste or unease with representations of violence in media and can also choose to criticize or avoid such media if they so desire.

Oh I totally understand. I am not saying people need to watch it or need to play it. If it isn't your thing, it isn't your thing.

Indeed, I too am not suggesting that anyone has to like or even condone the violence, but to criticize it from the standpoint of "this is new" or that games have finally "gone too far" or some such (if those were indeed the arguments being made) just seems entirely reminiscent of the tired history of the video game violence debate (with a nice dose of the "realism" debate tossed in ).

Truth be told, I made a few comments to my fiance' when we were watching the E3 pressers about how it sucks that almost every big game hyped at these shows centers around violence as the key gameplay hook - whether that be something more "realistic" like TLOU2 or something more "cartoony" like Smash...in most cases games still seem to be primarily about using violence to achieve objectives...and this is something that the medium really needs to move past as a primary focus.

I'd like to see the percentage of games that focus on violence be much closer to the percentage of other media (movies, music, TV, etc.) that use violence as its hook so that the medium can grow in new ways, expand to new audiences, mature more quickly, etc. Obviously there are like a million games coming out every year now (including many that don't hinge on violence), but the industry still uses violence as the central hook for almost all of the big budget titles it puts out.

[Ack]

I am most excited for that game. And it was confirmed that it will be played in a first person perspective; a plus for me.

Driving might be handled in third person. CD Projeckt has confirmed there will be driving, so this may be when third person comes into play.

I like that your character can be personalized as you desire. When I watched the trailer, I was concerned that I might be forced to see the world of Cyberpunk 2077 through the guise of one white guy with an admittedly nice car and cool jacket. But knowing I can build my character as I choose, suddenly it means I might be anyone in the trailer, from a big, beefy guy eating noodles to a lady with split eyebrows and a robot face. It means I have a better chance of losing myself in its world in different ways. I have high hopes.

Also, "Cool" is a stat.

[Xeogred]

Honestly, this gen hasn't been as good to me as far as AAA releases. I'm sitting on around 200 total games for PS3 and 360, I figure. By comparison, I might have maybe 40 games for PS4, and some of those are remasters, or physical releases of indie titles.

However, the indie scene has been good to me. Old school gaming is still alive, so I get stuff I want to play still.

I'm not actually going to choose a best generation right now, as there have been some great titles in all of them. But this is the first one where the state of AAA games has really diverged from what I would prefer to play. Now get off my dang lawn!

Also, I agree with Ex in that I'm not calling for censorship. I'm just noting that I have personal thresholds, and it's very possible this game has crossed it for me. I'd still love to play it, but I don't know if I will.

Interesting, I like that the AAA market has shrunken a bit and a lot of Japanese devs and titles are back on top... feels like a resurgence of the East to me, so I'm loving that. Just look at Nier vs Nier Automata's success, or Yakuza Zero's explosion, From Software is in high demand, Capcom are alive, good reboots like Doom (4), etc.

I hope Dragon Quest 11 does well over here.

[dsheinem]

I don't recall Saving Private Ryan's trailer intensely focusing on its war gore scenes, nor Schindler's List focusing on the abuse scenes of the Jews. Yet that's the equivalent of what The Last of Us 2's trailer does.

Outside of "Red Band" trailers, you typically won't see R-rated (or even PG-13 rated) gore in trailers because they are often designed to play to large audiences. The E3 trailers, by contrast, are not beholden to this tradition and typically these pressers are now prefaced by a content warning...so the analogy doesn't hold up for me.

If TLOU2 would have even half the decency of the writing of either of those two films, then at least its overtly gratuitous violence would have some purposeful context. Rather its shocking high definition violence is meant to excite the lowest common denominator's basal ganglia, if we're being honest.

I disagree - I think that there is a wide market of folks (myself included) who can appreciate when violence is done well vs when it is not. For example, setting up the violence in TLOU2 with a long tender dance scene beforehand made the violence that much more impactful (through sharp and immediate contrast) than pretty much any of the violence shown in the MS parade of violent trailers did, even though there were plenty of gibs to be found there, too. That shows a thoughtfulness about the violence that is much more fascinating than simply a philosophy of "let's have some gory shit in here". Not all violence in games is the same, and I find the violence in TLOU2 - which seems impactful and menacing - much more worthwhile than the violence in COD29 or Mortal Kombat XVMCD. And that's before even considering the quality of the writing, which is historically pretty good for that studio. I'd argue that the writing in the first TLOU is better than what one finds in many summer blockbusters, for example.

I get where Dave is coming from, but I disagree with him. We did not have stuff remotely like this in 1993/2003:



That is very far from being abstract now, and I don't see it seeming abstract ten years from now.

Here's a 2003 game that has some pretty visceral stuff: Are you saying that the uptick in graphical fidelity makes things that much worse? I just don't see that argument at all: it is clearly not a real person being hurt in 2003 nor in 2018.

[ElkinFencer10]

I got bored reading at page 13, but y'all are some prudes. I love me some gore porn murder simulators. I can't wait for the future of digital genocide.

[Forlorn Drifter]

While Bone didn't surprise me, I'm am surprised by how much some people here are put off. IMO the violence isn't even that far out. Gore is just going to be personal ability to stomach, but the level of violence didn't seem much worse than say, The Raid 2 to me.

I'd also point out that this is a weird mix of trailer and gameplay reveal for TLOU2, and being the type of game it is, we can't have gameplay without violence.
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But I'm super hyped for Cuberpunk. The details I've heard make it sound like they are really pushing for detail.

[ESauced]

Didn’t watch the Last of Us Part 2 trailer but I don’t need to. Maybe they highlight the violence but I’m confident there will be a great game around that violence. You kill people in droves in the entire Uncharted series and the original The Last of Us and those games are fantastic. I’m sure Part 2 will be one of the best PS4 games made. I just picked up a PS4 primarily for when it comes out.

I was underwhelmed by Nintendo. I was hoping they’d have a bigger surprise up their sleeves. Smash sounds cool but it’s more a greatest hits than a new game. Hopefully they make a good number of new stages too; if so then I’ll change my mind on it.

Microsoft wins for me purely because they actually surprised me with Battletoads and Cuphead dlc. I really only care about E3 for the reveals. I generally don’t need to see previews of games I’m already aware of; I’m plenty fine waiting until they actually release and checking a review.