Together Retro: First-Person Dungeon Crawlers

[Sarge]

I thought the SFC versions of 1-3 were the definitive versions. What makes the NES versions better? (Serious question, I wanna know if what I've been led to believe is wrong!)

[pierrot]

Agh! What is the answer to this dumb puzzle! It's just statues representing the four elementals (Salamander, Sylpheed, Undine, and Gnome) in a square configuration--separated by winding corridors, of course--and I can make them face any of the other three vertices, but I have no information about the arbitrary relationships between them. Do they want me to consider water's effect of squelching fire, or of nourishing earth? Wind making flames dance? Is fire really relevant here? WTF!

This version of Arcus I is also very different from the PC version, which is the only version of the game I can find any walkthrough information for. At least I'm starting to class-up, which appears to happen at level 10. So far I've been able to make Vied into an elementalist, which has given me an actual healing method outside of items, finally. At level 11 his mp cost per spell seems to have halved, also. (Everyone has 100 max mp, no more, no less. Not sure why most of them have any mp at all, though.)

I guess I'm brute forcing it, then. It's only 81 different states.

[Exhuminator]

If KF2 skews even more towards that structure, though, I may need to try it out somewhere down the line. Is that the one that got localized here as the "first" game?

Yes, the game the USA received localized as "King's Field" was actually King's Field 2. KF2 is the most "metroidvania" of all the KFs, with the most recursive level designs. It's not my favorite of the four KFs on PS1, but most KF fans think it's the best in the series. I assume they simply played it first, thus bias. KF2 is still really good, but I think KF1 and KF3 surpass it.

Nooo... Noooooooo.... NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I didn't like this in Lufia 2, never want to play Pokemon because of this, not sure about SMT Nocturne... I would have a hard time thinking of a JRPG with a big emphasis on "capturing" monsters or whatever that I actually liked doing.

You don't capture monsters in Nocturne. You negotiate with demons to join your team (barter / beg / threaten) or sometimes they ask to join of their own volition. Sometimes they leave your party of their own volition too (disagree with your leadership, or can't get along with other demons in your party). Pokemon's monster capturing system is considerably paltry and simple compared to Nocturne's. Also in Nocturne you can join demons together to form stronger demons, mixing and matching to get the best outcome. I didn't mind the demon collecting at all in Nocturne, but it was not my favorite part of that amazing experience.

---

Finished my second FPDC for this TR...



Had a whole night stuck in a hotel, so ended up finishing off Orcs & Elves II. It was only about 5 hours long, wasn't much of an investment. If you enjoyed the first Orcs & Elves you'd probably enjoy this "sequel", which is more like an expansion honestly. You can read my review here.

With that down, I'm returning to Fighting Fantasy: The Warlock of Firetop Mountain on DS.

[prfsnl_gmr]

Me: <playing Shadow Tower>

My Daughter: “Dad, this game is like a nightmare.”

Me: “I know...Isn’t it awesome!”

.....

Shadow Tower is really tough, and although I finally found some save points, I kept getting killed. Then, I thought, “Wait...Isn’t this a From Software FPDC? Aren’t the enemies really dumb and territorial? Even amorphous slimes can be attacked from the sides, right? Don’t the enemies turn around even slower than you do? Have you forgotten how to strafe?” Now, the combat is much, much easier...Not a fan of the things that drain my hit points just by being in the room with them, though.

Now that I am back in the swing again, it’s going a little better. I know I will die instantly if I get too far ahead of where I’m supposed to be, and I know that finding hidden rooms to stock up on supplies will be key to survival. Accordingly, I am spending a lot of time walking against walls pressing the X button. I’ve found some more weapons and upgraded my strength a few time, though; so, I’m making progress. Also, enemies don’t res pawn much; so I’m getting the freedom to live around a bit.

[Sarge]

Since I am playing KF4, I am employing much of the same strategies. Much strafing, and taking advantage of doofy enemy patterns, particularly when they get outside their "zone". Of course, I'm getting to the point where there isn't much that is overly threatening; I've got two really powerful swords now (the aforementioned Wavecrasher and a tri-bladed sword). I just solved a simple puzzle to get the Wisdom Ring, which I had spoiled for me helps me open the "you're not kingly" door I found earlier.

I also looted the heck out of the treasury, and apparently found the King's Map, which showed me everything in the area? I'm going to try it other places, but it looks like it might work like a crystal ball and reveal all passages in the general vicinity.

If I had to take a wild guess, given my levels, I'm over 2/3 through the game now. Hopefully I can polish it up before I have to go on my Boston trip; the weekend might help in that regard, but it's also Mother's Day so I might not get a lot of time in.

[Exhuminator]

My Daughter: “Dad, this game is like a nightmare.”

Very accurate description, I agree.

Aren’t the enemies really dumb and territorial?

The difficulty in KFs and STs comes from figuring out where to go and what to do, versus hard enemies (the Souls games invert the formula). I can think of a few instances of difficult enemies throughout the KF series, but they are exceptions. Shadow Tower is the hardest because resources are super limited in the beginning. It's also the most obtuse in general.

I just solved a simple puzzle to get the Wisdom Ring, which I had spoiled for me helps me open the "you're not kingly" door I found earlier.

Not sure how that was spoiled for you. Are you using a walkthrough? I advise against playing any KF or ST with a walkthrough. That would sap the challenge, dampen the reward of exploration, and ruin surprises. I'm not accusing you of using a walkthrough, just putting that out there as a general statement.

apparently found the King's Map, which showed me everything in the area?

That was the special item I was talking about. It makes backtracking a more lucrative affair.

It's making me very happy to read about you two playing these games. Open minds and determined thumbs will be rewarded.

[pierrot]

Well, I got all the trinkets, and have gone through the first round of promotions with all my party members. I spent a bit of time working out the combinations for the puzzle, then working from a hypothesis that the solution probably wouldn't have any repetitions in it, I was left with nine likely cases. I went through three of them before I got a hit, and it was one that I am 100% positive I had already tried (Undine facing Salamander, Salamander facing Undine, Sylph facing Gnome, Gnome facing Sylph), but I guess the trick was that I must not have checked the locked door after setting them that way. There was no indication that it was the solution until I went to check that door.

Well, that's done. Next time I'll be headed into the desert.

[Erik_Twice]

I'm playing the SNES version as I'm told it's the best version. Apparently it's mechanically accurate to the original games but the graphics are great and the interface is very clean. It also allows you to play 2 and 3 without using an old save, if I recall correctly. The order of the scenarios might be changed around, though.

Also, skipping 4? It's the game I'm actually interested the most on!

Doesn't Wizardry also throw in a ton of teleporters in the late game, making mapping a pain in the butt?

It has both teleporters and spinners. They are introduced gradually and, from what I know, are very specifically placed.

But yeah they are a mapping challenge. But mapping is fun! I'm liking it very much so far.

[BoneSnapDeez]

I thought the SFC versions of 1-3 were the definitive versions. What makes the NES versions better? (Serious question, I wanna know if what I've been led to believe is wrong!)

You're not wrong. Just personal preference of mine.

The NES/Fami games were released in the wrong order though, so beware!

[marurun]

Don't forget that there are PC Engine CD releases for Wizardry I & II and III & IV (2 collections of 2 games). Supposedly there's an English mode for some of the text (but not all of it). If you're OK with emulating and have some basic Japanese skill, this might be a great way to experience Wizardry. PC Engine CD is a boss platform.