Together Retro: First-Person Dungeon Crawlers

[Erik_Twice]

Oh wow! The original Wizardry was a lot of fun, if grueling, but it's definitely a big challenge. I will say that it does get a little easier as you get leveled, but expect to get your teeth kicked in often by random chance.

Kudos to you for rising to the challenge!

Thanks! It is a lot of fun. I feared it was going to be dull, but it isn't! It's very well-paced so far and tense at every step. I've always wanted to give it a serious try, with real mapping and taking the long-term view, not just playing for five minutes so I'm glad to be able to do it.

That said, my plans of sharing it and creating a video series to show how the game is played is probably not going to pan out. I'm a terrible streamer XD

[nullPointer]

Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei is an interesting game. I'm not sure I'm quite ready to proclaim it a fun game necessarily, but it definitely has some compelling elements. There are some things that it does quite well, while faltering at others. It's a game in search of a player who enjoys a certain style of gameplay systems. In this regard it shows a surprising amount of depth for its age. The game really hinges on whether you'll find enjoyment in capturing demons and subsequently fusing various combinations of demons to create even more powerful demons. 'Capturing' might not be the right word to use here. In order to enlist demons, you'll engage in negotiations in which various demons reacting differently to different negotiation strategies. Various factors will impact your success in this capacity including allocation of key stats as well as the current phase of the moon (phase of the moon actually impacts a number of factors in the game). All the same, most negotiations will end with you somehow bribing demons to join you. So it's in this regard that Megami Tensei really shines. If this sounds fun, there's a good chance you'll have a good time here.

Unfortunately the demon capturing aspect of the game seems to be where the bulk of its focus lies. For such a uniquely interesting story and setting, it just seems to me like there's so much untapped potential here. Very little emphasis is put into world building and narrative. And again that's a damned shame because what's here is certainly compelling. Perhaps it's not until later in the series (and I'm guessing not until Altus took over) that effective story telling was truly capitalized on. My last gripe is minor, but increasingly noticeable the longer one spends in the game. To be blunt, this game is just … boring to look at while navigating through the sizeable dungeons. In between large sections of dungeon you'll find some variation, but as an example, I just finished traversing eight floors of the exact same gray walls and red floor with absolutely nothing to differentiate from one grid square to the next. And again this is a shame because the monster designs in Megami Tensei look amazing. One just wishes that this level of quality visuals was applied consistently throughout.

I'm having fun with Megami Tensei, because there really is some satisfaction to be had in fusing demons into powerful world conquering allies, but it's definitely a bit of a lop sided experience thus far. I just cleared out Daedalus Tower and I'm moving on to Valhalla Corridor which thankfully means I can look at least look at some different (though once again thoroughly homogenous) scenery for a while.

I'm torn between the fact that I've finally built up some inertia in this game and the fact that I'm also really looking forward to jumping into KF2. I plan on finishing both, it's just a matter of whether I continue to capitalize on my momentum in Megami Tensei (and whether I'll be able to put KF2 down once I start for that matter)

[Xeogred]

Unfortunately the demon capturing aspect of the game seems to be where the bulk of its focus lies.

Nooo... Noooooooo.... NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I didn't like this in Lufia 2, never want to play Pokemon because of this, not sure about SMT Nocturne... I would have a hard time thinking of a JRPG with a big emphasis on "capturing" monsters or whatever that I actually liked doing.

I liked the arena in Arc the Lad 2 I guess.

[Sload Soap]

Is the mansion after the underground grave tunnel?
Also to upgrade characters have you just been buying the best gear? I have found that I had just enough money to buy all the gear before entering the tunnel.

Yeah, I've ground out enough to be able to buy the best gear. However, a fair few of the best items for sale in town are hidden away in the mansion so it's not necessary.

If you mean the tunnel in the graveyard that connects to the mansion, I came to a dead end and had to leave. However I've killed the boss of the mansion and hit a switch so I think I have to return there to progress. My party are all around level 15 now so I'm trundling along quite nicely.

What I will say for this game is it does not respect your time. No save points outside of churches (save Sabato in the well) and long drawn out battle animations, damn there is some unneeded plodding in this game.

[pierrot]

Nice "loophole" you found by playing a Telenet game.

I mean, I have to have my cake and eat it too. Otherwise, what's the point of cake?


Story time! So, here's what's going down in Arcus, so far:

I've assumed the role of Jeda, lumberjack's son, and all around 18-year-old. While on his deathbed, Jeda's father reveals that he was once a knight in service of the king, and tells Jeda to go find his old sword deep in the temple Elmizard. Jeda's a decent kid, so he obliges. Coming out of the woods, and into the bustling castle town of Puldencia, Jeda goes directly to the pub to hit on a bar wench, and chat up a lush lady of the order of angry-drunk orphan knights, Erin. (Maybe he's not all that decent a kid--.) Anyway, eventually Jeda makes it to Elmizard, and finds an old Hobbit thief, Tron, spelunking for treasures. They decide to work together (or more accurately, Tron decides that Jeda would make a great workhorse, and he's not wrong about that). After finding Jeda's father's sword, and the ring Tron was looking for, they're set upon by a massive pillar of assimilated life crushing itself into gelatinous form. It's kind of horrifying to think about, but it went down without a fuss thanks to the new sword, Tiamat! Tron thought he could keep the ring in his bag of things, but Jeda--I--confiscated it. Them's the breaks old man: My party my rules. (Does anyone else think Jeda might be kind of a dick?) After getting back to town, Jeda and Tron decide to head over to the pub to talk about all the booty they plundered--if memory serves, they were actually just strolling by, but I'm expositing, here. Seems Erin had gotten to her drunken tipping point, and started fighting with the locals. She fought--although it was probably a lot to do with all the drinking she did up front--herself into a mild coma, but Jeda decides to pick her up (literally) and take her with he and Tron to the Inn. Erin does not take kindly to being frisked by this young buck, and lashes out at Jeda. She sobers up pretty quickly once the king's guards show up, though, and Tron is freaking out--naturally, because he's a thief, and a Hobbit. Seems the world is still healing from a long war between the Humans, Elves, Hobbits, and--possibly--Dwarves (I can't remember what other fantasy races were supposedly inhabiting this world).

The group manages to slip the guards, but not the king's right-hand mage, Vied, who's about to haul the lot in when he decides to use them as pawns instead. A few days earlier, a golden dragon showed up in the king's court to deliver an ominous message of the end of days, and the kingdom has been silently churning for answers, and any sort of recourse. In his audience with the king, Jeda finds out that his father was actually one of two great knights, the other of whom, Acnetius, left on a journey some years ago. So, at any rate, the ragtag group is dispatched covertly to woods to meet with the Elves' elder, and hopefully talk with the Elves' Sage about the gold dragon. They are not treated hospitably there, with the elder turning away their request to meet with the Sage, due to his people's lingering distrust of humans, but he does provide an escort--his daughter, Diana--back out of the woods. Diana lets them know that they're free to go talk with the Sage as long as they are in her escort--that wily old geezer.

Unfortunately, the Sage's home is abandoned, and the group is left without a single clue. Passing by the swamp on the way back to the elf village, they see a vision of an elf woman, who just so happens to be the Sage. She tells the group that she chose her love of Acnetius over her responsibilities as Sage, when out of nowhere, Pict, her son, comes loping out of the woods to talk with his mother. She tells him to go with Jeda, and fulfill his responsibilities as Sage--. Now rolling six deep, the party grabs their gats, and-- oh, no, sorry. They travel back to the Linden Tree, and find an ancient message inscribed on the tree. This leads Vied to suggest searching the old book repository in the basement of the Miryu Tower, which is now infested with ghouls, skeletons, and zombies--this sounds like a great idea, Vied. After working through the hoards of undead, it seems a pact with the elementals is in order, but first I need their treasures, which apparently reside in Elmizard. So, that's where I'm off to next.

[nullPointer]

Unfortunately the demon capturing aspect of the game seems to be where the bulk of its focus lies.

Nooo... Noooooooo.... NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I didn't like this in Lufia 2, never want to play Pokemon because of this, not sure about SMT Nocturne... I would have a hard time thinking of a JRPG with a big emphasis on "capturing" monsters or whatever that I actually liked doing.

Haha, I know right? It's not my favorite either. If anything it's interesting from a historical perspective in that this game predates Pokemon by a number of years (almost 10!). And some of the similarities are readily apparent (i.e. instead of Pokeballs your monsters are transported and called forth from your computer, instead of 'evolving' into more powerful forms, your demons are made more powerful through fusing with other demons, etc.). So while I'm certainly no expert on the history of 'monster capturing' games I'd have to think that this is one of the earlier (and better?) examples of the mechanic.

But the 'capturing' element sort of depends on how you look at it. If you approach it as, "recruiting enemies as summonable party members", then maybe it's not quite so grating.

[pierrot]

For the record, the second game puts a lot more emphasis on narrative, but the first game is the only one that really has a story consistent with the title of the games. I really like the story of the first game, although it is really subtle, and most of the story moments happen in just a few interactions in towns. Might I suggest this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgk4BFIp6G8. It's the OVA adaptation of one of the books, and is the basis for the Famicom game. The stories are functionally the same, but the OVA provides all of the backstory, and a lot of the more nuanced details lost in the game. The stories aren't identical, though.

I'm glad you're enjoying it on some level at least. The backgrounds tend to change by area. I think things starts to pick up a bit once you get to Bien, personally.

[MrPopo]

I'm going to start a short Wizardry stream here, in case someone wants to help me a hand



EDIT: Done! I wasn't exactly eloquent but I had fun. Sorry if I explained myself really poorly, my English skills were as dead as my characters today.
Death count: 4 (50% of my characters!)

I got two of my characters killed by being greedy. I fought against 4 Skeletons, which aren't an easy fight at level 1, and won by the edge of my teeth. I should have thanked the heavens, grabbed my things and rushed back to the city to heal myself. But I didn't, because they dropped a chest. And how can I resist a chest? Well, there was a bomb in it and it exploded. Oh well, my fault!

So a pro-tip if you decide to play through the whole trilogy on PC: Wizardry 2 and 3 require a save file from the previous game to make a party. Wizardry 2 directly ports the characters, while Wizardry 3 merely creates "descendants". The thing is, both games don't let you create characters in game, so if someone dies and you can't revive them you're behind the eight ball. So you'll want to back up your end game Wizardry 1 save before starting Wizardry 2 and reload it as necessary until you get a good enough start, and same thing with Wizardry 3.

[marurun]

Doesn't Wizardry also throw in a ton of teleporters in the late game, making mapping a pain in the butt?

[BoneSnapDeez]

No joke, here's the best way to play the Wizardry series:

Parts 1-3: NES/Famicom
Part 4: Just skip it
Part 5: SNES
Parts 6-8: PC (GOG.com)