Together Retro: First-Person Dungeon Crawlers

[Sarge]

I think I could have done it a bit faster, but I definitely backtracked a few times to hit the secret areas that I saw on the map and missed in the heat of the action. I didn't 100% the game, but came pretty close; I think there was one level where I missed some secrets.

That being said, once you've cleared out all the enemies, getting to those spots takes very little time, so it probably didn't make that much difference!

[nullPointer]

Last night I jumped into Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei, but only just barely enough to scratch the surface. I'm playing the version which appears on Kyūyaku Megami Tensei a Super Famicom compilation including the first two Megami Tensei games with 16 bit graphical upgrades. It's also worth mentioning that I've applied the translation patch by DDSTranslation.

For some reason I was mistakenly under the impression that this game was a mix of overhead RPG segments and first-person dungeon crawling segments. I'm not sure why I might have thought that, but it's definitely not the case. This is pure FPDC. At the beginning of the game there are a few screens of exposition explaining how and why you find yourself in your current predicament, and then boom, you're in the dungeon. And even with some nice 16 bit graphical enhancements, this seems to be a decidedly old school affair at that. The dungeon itself is fairly featureless and movement is decidedly grid-based. At some point in the voting thread (or some other thread at any rate), there was a bit of discussion regarding mobile 'graph paper mapping' apps, and I might use one in conjunction with DDS: MT just to see how it goes. Due to the featureless nature of the dungeon, it definitely seems like it could be easy to get disoriented without employing some means of cartography.

At any rate I wandered around to check out some shops and talk to a few friendly denizens of the underworld in which I find myself. One fellow in viking garb advised me that beyond this point I would enter the demon realm from which I might not reemerge; serious talk from a man whose wardrobe consists solely of stinky animal pelts and hats with horns. It was at that point that I switched off for the night, lest I meet the trickster god of video games who, with constantly reassuring dulcet tones whispers in my ear, "just a few more minutes of play ..." until such time I realize that I'm only getting 3 hours of sleep before my 8AM meeting. So thank you for your admonishment, Lesser Viking God. Your place in Valhalla is assured. Skål! (etc., etc.)

So this is a really weird correlation ... but with all the mixing of mythologies and pantheons, I sure do get some American Gods vibes from this game. Perhaps Neil Gaiman is a fan of Japanese first person dungeon crawlers!? We may never know for sure.

[Nemoide]

I'm kind of amazed with myself about how much progress I've been making in The Dark Spire.
All my characters are level 11 and can reasonably comfortably walk around on the fifth floor, which I just reached last night. The entrance to the fifth floor was hidden by a puzzle but it was just the right difficulty to feel satisfying to have figured out before I got frustrated by being stuck on the fourth floor. Monsters on that floor give quite a nice chunk of experience points (EP in this game) and my mage knows some spells that can make short work of them (though I still feel pretty limited by how many times I can cast them considering how frequent combat can be). I managed to get the elevator working which gives easy access to all the floors I've been to and plan on exploring a part of the tower's basement I've yet to venture into next. Or maybe grind for EP to boost my character's stats some more...

Regardless, I'm finding this game SUPER SATISFYING as it feels like I'm constantly making some sort of progress every session. Based on how much time I find myself wanting to sink into this game, I'm confident that I'll beat it by the end of the month. BUT WE SHALL SEE because I know there's some sort of significant "post game" content for the true ending.

[MrPopo]

So if I remember correctly, the game has six floors in the main game, then after the credits you can unlock the seventh floor (which is something I still need to go back and do). So you are definitely on track for getting to the credits before the end of the month unless you get hit by a bus or something.

[Exhuminator]

This is pure FPDC.

Maybe I'm wrong (somebody won't miss the chance to point it out if I am), but IIRC pure MT & SMT games always are FP. Even Soul Hackers was. And SMT3 unlocks first person mode as a New Game+ option. I think it's rad you're playing the SFC version of this, that's the one I was considering playing when I get around to the roots of the series. Will be following your progress!

I'm finding this game SUPER SATISFYING as it feels like I'm constantly making some sort of progress every session.

That sentence describes the way I feel about Mazes of Fate DS too. The pick up / put down / make quick progress nature of the experience is super addictive. Portable FPDCs are amazing.

So if I remember correctly, the game has six floors in the main game, then after the credits you can unlock the seventh floor (which is something I still need to go back and do).

Since you basically beat The Dark Spire, and IIRC you've beaten all the DS Etrian Odyssey games, which of those is the most challenging? Is The Dark Spire harder than OG Etrian Odyssey?

[MrPopo]

I'd say that Dark Spire has more bullshit than Etrian Odyssey. It's pulling extremely heavily from early Wizardry, so you have a lot of bullshit coming from enemies like OHKO attacks and massive spell damage that comes down to whether or not you go first. Etrian Odyssey, on the other hand, for the most part can be countered through good party building. The flip side is that it is much easier to create a terrible party in EO through bad class and skill selection, whereas in DS the only way to get a bad party is to intentionally do something silly like 4x Thief. Your natural inclination to balance out capabilities gives you a good party. Dark Spire also has a lot more puzzle elements in terms of solving riddles, dealing with dark squares, and the like. EO's puzzles were mostly movement puzzles of "how do I get this FOE to path the way I want?" and thus were easier to figure out. So I guess I'd say that Dark Spire is probably a bit harder than the early Etrian Odyssey games, but it certainly isn't by a runaway amount.

[Ack]

This is pure FPDC.

Maybe I'm wrong (somebody won't miss the chance to point it out if I am), but IIRC pure MT & SMT games always are FP. Even Soul Hackers was. And SMT3 unlocks first person mode as a New Game+ option. I think it's rad you're playing the SFC version of this, that's the one I was considering playing when I get around to the roots of the series. Will be following your progress!

I believe the SMT games transitioned over to third-person in the 2000s, though the games use first-person view for combat. In fact, I think If... was the last of the pure first-person SMT games.

[Ack]

I'd say that Dark Spire has more bullshit than Etrian Odyssey. It's pulling extremely heavily from early Wizardry, so you have a lot of bullshit coming from enemies like OHKO attacks and massive spell damage that comes down to whether or not you go first. Etrian Odyssey, on the other hand, for the most part can be countered through good party building. The flip side is that it is much easier to create a terrible party in EO through bad class and skill selection, whereas in DS the only way to get a bad party is to intentionally do something silly like 4x Thief. Your natural inclination to balance out capabilities gives you a good party. Dark Spire also has a lot more puzzle elements in terms of solving riddles, dealing with dark squares, and the like. EO's puzzles were mostly movement puzzles of "how do I get this FOE to path the way I want?" and thus were easier to figure out. So I guess I'd say that Dark Spire is probably a bit harder than the early Etrian Odyssey games, but it certainly isn't by a runaway amount.

Now how do these compare to the Elminage games?

[MrPopo]

This is pure FPDC.

Maybe I'm wrong (somebody won't miss the chance to point it out if I am), but IIRC pure MT & SMT games always are FP. Even Soul Hackers was. And SMT3 unlocks first person mode as a New Game+ option. I think it's rad you're playing the SFC version of this, that's the one I was considering playing when I get around to the roots of the series. Will be following your progress!

I believe the SMT games transitioned over to third-person in the 2000s, though the games use first-person view for combat. In fact, I think If... was the last of the pure first-person SMT games.

Strange Journey and SMT4 and 4:A are both pure first person.

As for Elminage, I haven't played that series, so I can't compare difficulties.

[prfsnl_gmr]

Weaklings. The Picdun has 60 floors; each floor is on a 20x20 grid; all of the puzzles are ridiculous; all of the hints are translated either poorly or incorrectly; the graphics are bland; the music is bad; and, at times, the floors are designed to be as annoying as possible, especially towards the end of the game. (Also, the only guide online is in Japanese.) You also have to walk over every tile in the game to succeed, and you can spend HOURS trying to find the one or two you need to complete a level. (“Oh, here they are! Behind a false wall that is completely unmarked and only opens up if you walk backwards through it!”)

That said, the combat’s pretty fun and easy, and the sprites are well-animated. Also, I am apparently obsessed with finally beating it. So...it isn’t all bad?