will there ever be a neogeo clone system?

[marurun]

Dude, the graphics hardware isn't exactly a typical CPU. It's usually some highly customized minor CPU or DSP paired with some extra circuitry. It's the same for all consoles. The SNES and Genesis Wikipedia articles detail the graphics chips. The Neo Geo one doesn't. That doesn't mean the Neo Geo doesn't have one. Wikipedia isn't the source of all knowledge. The CPU doesn't control hardware requirements for maximum sprites, maximum sprites on a line, the color requirements, or the hardware scaling the Neo Geo can do. That's all handled by the graphics processor. That's also where the Neo Geo is most different from the Genesis. The Genesis has the same core CPUs (M68000 and Z80) and yet the Neo Geo is MUCH more powerful. It isn't just that the Neo Geo is clocked higher. It's because it uses a much more powerful graphics subsystem.

In the case of all consoles the graphics subsystem is generally the most customized part of the console, though the CPU may see customizations as well depending on the level of integration it has with the graphics chipset or the relationship the company which made the console has with a hardware supplier and chip designer. Emulation of the SNES is tons of trouble due to the custom PPU and sound chipsets and a number of quirks due to cutting corners and cutting costs. Emulation for the Neo Geo is actually easier because the graphics hardware is simpler and more straight-forward. It doesn't really cut many corners. It's just beefy. Complexity doesn't always breed power. Sometimes it just breeds complexity.

The Neo Geo was much more advanced and powerful hardware than any of the systems you've named that have been cloned. The video hardware, especially, was a very custom job. Although it probably won't be long before any Neo Geo patents would be expired, if they haven't already.

You sure about that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_Geo_(c ... ifications

M68K and a Z80 aren't what I'd call "very custom" at all. They appeared in a tonne of other stuff, including the Megadrive/Genesis, Amiga, and buckets of arcade titles. I can buy them for about $10 from my local Jaycar (substitute "Radio Shack" or whatever is your local equivalent).

Unless Wikipedia is missing some magic "custom" chip, it looks like a pretty damned simple console/system to clone.

[sneth]

right indeed.
but either way, even the 100 in 1 boot is almost $1000.
that's steep, even for neo prices.

I am sure at one point there was something floating around HK, but i have not seen one.

[dlmvii]

right indeed.
but either way, even the 100 in 1 boot is almost $1000.
that's steep, even for neo prices.

I am sure at one point there was something floating around HK, but i have not seen one.

The 100-in-1 is 798 HKD

That's about $100 US. Still expensive, but not quite as bad.

[sneth]

wups
thought it was converted for some reason.

[marurun]

Well, if there was cheap clone hardware they could work out a deal with SNK to release some handhelds with 8 games build right in!

[kingdomheights777]

Before I finally got mine, i just emulated on my xbox and that held me over for a while. Some of course didn't want to work due to Ram issues (metal slug 4,5) but over all most of the worked flawlessly.

[elvis]

Dude, the graphics hardware isn't exactly a typical CPU. It's usually some highly customized minor CPU or DSP paired with some extra circuitry. It's the same for all consoles. The SNES and Genesis Wikipedia articles detail the graphics chips. The Neo Geo one doesn't. That doesn't mean the Neo Geo doesn't have one. Wikipedia isn't the source of all knowledge.

Dude, calm down.

Have you got a link to any sources that detail the video processor/DSP? If it's been emulated for as long as it has, someone somewhere must have some pretty in-depth knowledge about it. Surely rebuilding something similar is doable (possibly just cost-prohibitive).

Googling leads me nowhere. Anyone know any technical documents that detail the chip(s) in question?

[DCsegaDH]

My problem is even if someone makes a clone of the Neo Geo system,the games are expensive and hard to find(the rare ones).The AES carts are so pricey,I would rather get a Neo Geo arcade and collect the MVS carts,their cheaper.

[marurun]

Surely rebuilding something similar is doable (possibly just cost-prohibitive).

This was the point I was trying to make. Custom chips are always a pain to replicate unless you can benefit from economies of scale.

Googling leads me nowhere. Anyone know any technical documents that detail the chip(s) in question?

Same. Most sources simply copy Wikipedia that a custom SNK video chipset gives the Neo Geo "x" capabilities. I suspect there's some hardware documentation somewhere linked to an emulator site, but I'm not finding it with Google.

[tcdev]

The NeoGeo has _lots_ of hardware sprites with scaling in hardware - that's the main gist of the custom graphics AFAIK. Not necessarily technically complex, but I'm not sure it's 100% understood by anyone either atm.

All you need to do is look at NeoGeo emulation source code to work out the hardware specifications. There is a document out there which details a lot of the registers, but doesn't go into detail on the graphics hardware. Reading some of the (MAME) NeoGeo source, there are "hacks" sprinkled throughout the code to get specific games to work properly - which of course means that the emulation isn't perfect.

I've started work on a NeoGeo implementation in an FPGA. I can boot into the BIOS and navigate through all the BIOS screens, change the date/time, etc.
<http://pacedev.net/forums/showthread.php?t=43>

Where I've hit a brick wall for the moment is the limited memory available on the FPGA development boards I'm using. Because I need to load up a few MB of data (program & graphics roms) I need to get the SDRAM working effectively as a 12MHz SRAM - something I haven't done yet.

Regards,