RPGs in general going downhill?

[Zalphier]

Disgaia is pretty good.
so is wild arms
and there are hundreds more

[Zork]

Disgaia is pretty good.
so is wild arms
and there are hundreds more

I've played Chrono Trigger before and I thought it was great, the problem of course is getting it, I keep putting it off, maybe it'll be on the virtual console someday for the Wii and I can get it then. I've never played a Wild Arms game or Disgaia, I actually don't even recognize Disgaia. One of my friends told me about Wild Arms before and I thought it was kind of interesting but I'm more inclined to pick up the older games, I'd also like to try and get Chrono Cross.

Now there were a pair of RPGs I've heard of off and on before, one that came out for the Saturn that could've really helped it out that we didn't get and Playstation owners got in North America, then the second game came out for the Dreamcast but I forgot the name of it...

[americankgb]

After reading this thread I'm going to go home and find my xenogears disc and play again.

[Mozgus]

After reading this thread I'm going to go home and find my xenogears disc and play again.

One of the best soundtracks ever. Shame about that second disc being completely terrible.

[metaleggman]

Hm...I was thinking about it, and maybe all of you guys who went gaga over the cinematics for FF7 or Xenosaga, maybe you like watching movies more than playing video games, and that's why you are attracted to the genre. And I know what some of you might say, "I hate the movies! Wachoo Talkin' bout?" Well, it just so happens you like the movies made by the video game companies.

Just an observation me thinks.

[Zork]

Hm...I was thinking about it, and maybe all of you guys who went gaga over the cinematics for FF7 or Xenosaga, maybe you like watching movies more than playing video games, and that's why you are attracted to the genre. And I know what some of you might say, "I hate the movies! Wachoo Talkin' bout?" Well, it just so happens you like the movies made by the video game companies.

Just an observation me thinks.

I'm shooting real straight here...

Never and I mean NEVER will I take presentation into more consideration than gameplay, but this is null and void when talking about RPGs in a sense. Because you're Role Playing, if the role is boring than all you have is a bunch of game mechanics when you think about it.

When I played FF7 I was not impressed with it's cinamatics, I had seen more impressive ones beforehand honestly but it could also have to do with how I didn't play FF7 until about after a year or so of it's release. I've never played Xenosaga or any of the Xeno games either so I can't comment on that but cinemas hardly impact what I think of a game.

My first RPG was Diablo for the PC. There were only two cinemas in the game beginning and the end, and that game is one of my all time favorites.

[neohx_7]

Seems like we have a lot of inexperienced console RPG players here. Between Genesis, Sega CD, Saturn, NES, SNES, PSX, GBA, PS2, GCN, XBOX, NDS, etc. You'd think we'd have more to talk about. I don't know how you can say that the genre is bleak, when there are 100s of old RPGs you haven't played and some grade A titles coming out at least every year. Maybe what you are really talking about is the elephant in the room; the fact that game development costs are causing quality issues industry wide. Companies are not willing to take risks to develop revolutionary gameplay outside of the D&D/Jap RPG traditions or make a game that is truly difficult in a good way. (last couple Zeldas were soo easy...) Anyways, it sounds like some of you haven't played enough games. Go play a "Tales of" game or go back and play Phantasy Star IV or something. How about Vagrant Story or Front Mission? Yes, Square made some other games besides Final Fantasy VII. Why isn't anyone talking about Dragon Quest III or VIII???

since everyone is weighing in...

FF7 - Great world and art direction, horrible cliche story and a cinematic 3D villain with less personality than ExDeath, crappier battle system of the series, broken magic/ability system, easy difficulty, revolutionary shift from SNES to PSX which brough additions that can be appreciated for starting a new wave of RPGs, a few great musical numbers, and responsible for a brainwashing of an entire generation. Cloud and Sephiroth only LOOKED cool, they were 1-dimensional plot devices with less personality than Joe and Mac or Link and Zelda

FF8 - Awful world map and concept, decent art design, worst story post FFIV it was inept between Ed Wood quality plot holes (GF mem loss, no radio communications?? WTF) and teenage angsty pandering, superb card game inside a game, innovative magic/ability system, stupid items/weapsons system, medium difficulty, a solid enjoyable soundtrack across the board with some great songs, responsible for the most emo FF evar and I wouldn't be surprised if Squall cuts his arms and wears eye shadow in the Playstation 4 remake

FF12- Wonderous and vast world, beautiful art direction, interesting story at start but fails terribly, superb battle system, magic/abilities (licensing) is primitive and does not lend to specializing characters, intriguing weapons and items systems, delightful sidequests and exploration, a nicely balanced soundtrack and great surround sound, higher difficulty level , this game was very different than the first one although you can still try to play through with just one character, I missed the mysterious tightly nit story, but I loved the expansive world and the art, too bad the original battle/weapons system seems mostly scrapped. Overall I very much enjoyed Vagrant Story 2.

[Zalphier]

I never really enjoyed a single Dragon quest game, I stopped trying around 3.
And while I find fmv's have added a great deal to the final fantasy series, I don't play just to watch the movies. I could get those from the internet. The games do have good stories, which is mainly why I play them. RPGs are interactive stories. You take a role in the story, and see how it unfolds.

[Zork]

Seems like we have a lot of inexperienced console RPG players here. Between Genesis, Sega CD, Saturn, NES, SNES, PSX, GBA, PS2, GCN, XBOX, NDS, etc. You'd think we'd have more to talk about. I don't know how you can say that the genre is bleak, when there are 100s of old RPGs you haven't played and some grade A titles coming out at least every year. Maybe what you are really talking about is the elephant in the room; the fact that game development costs are causing quality issues industry wide. Companies are not willing to take risks to develop revolutionary gameplay outside of the D&D/Jap RPG traditions or make a game that is truly difficult in a good way. (last couple Zeldas were soo easy...) Anyways, it sounds like some of you haven't played enough games. Go play a "Tales of" game or go back and play Phantasy Star IV or something. How about Vagrant Story or Front Mission? Yes, Square made some other games besides Final Fantasy VII. Why isn't anyone talking about Dragon Quest III or VIII???

I've played many older RPGs as well actually, I've played pretty much everything else that Square made that wasn't FF enjoyed most of it. I never really liked Phantasy Star ever, or Dragon Quest for that matter.

But again I wasn't really complaining about the way these things play, mainly their very repetitive and boring stories after so long. Thats why I drew comparison to average Hollywood. Recently though I've looked around out of complete desperation for something different and I've found a few things and I'm in the process of trying them. I've picked up Valkyrie Profile for PSP and I enjoy the premise of the game so far. Sure the story isn't completely original but I honestly can't recall another good game using it's premise which is Norse Mythology.

[neohx_7]

Seems like we have a lot of inexperienced console RPG players here. Between Genesis, Sega CD, Saturn, NES, SNES, PSX, GBA, PS2, GCN, XBOX, NDS, etc. You'd think we'd have more to talk about...

I've played many older RPGs as well actually, I've played pretty much everything else that Square made that wasn't FF enjoyed most of it. I never really liked Phantasy Star ever, or Dragon Quest for that matter.

But again I wasn't really complaining about the way these things play, mainly their very repetitive and boring stories after so long. Thats why I drew comparison to average Hollywood. Recently though I've looked around out of complete desperation for something different and I've found a few things and I'm in the process of trying them. I've picked up Valkyrie Profile for PSP and I enjoy the premise of the game so far. Sure the story isn't completely original but I honestly can't recall another good game using it's premise which is Norse Mythology.

Thanks for clarifying. I think you just aren't going to find a really good narrative in these games. They get long winded like Front Mission or FF Tactics and full of cliches and unfinished like Xenogears. My opinion is that companies won't break out of the cliche Jap/D&D mold any time soon for numerous reasons.

1. They don't think that games where the story is the most important element will sell well
2. It would take too long to develop such games to be profitable
3. The game buying Japanese public seem to crave only a few different versions of RPG stories and especially the turn based mechanics (see reactions to the changes with DQ9 and FF12)
4. Game development management is not often structured to reward the risk takers and visionaries. (Capcom's Clover studio and Namco's Katamari broke this trend)
5. The writers/designers for a games story/world are not usually lauded. Producers like Miyamoto, Will Wright, Sid Meier and Kojima get credit.
6. We keep buying them so they keep making them
7. Maybe you should be looking at the adventure games genre.

I agree that the cliches are getting a bit old. Its interesting to note that Valkyrie Profile is a remake of an old PSX game so it can't count as new. Personally, I recently found Breath of Fire 5 and some of the Nippon Ichi games to have a fresher story. Aren't there any games that you've played lately (RPG or not) that had a satisfying story?