☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

[Xeogred]

Letting me down there Gunstar.

DS2's atmosphere is not on par with the others and the boss designs are lackluster and cheap looking, also spammed a bit too much. There's so many bosses. But other than that, I fucking love DS2. I've seen others bring up Life Gems and I just don't see how that's a big deal, lol.

DS2's incoherence in terms of level design is odd and makes the first half of the game a little unmemorable area wise since a lot of them are short, but I read some good article years back I wish I could find again that was a cool deep dive on some DS2 theories. Basically, you're in purgatory and it's not supposed to be logical. That's a cheap cop out and I can't relay the message as well as the article dissected it and the entire game, but yeah. There are a lot of good areas later on in the back half of the game absolutely worth seeing.

I also still think it has the best DLC of them all. When bruno got through him he was telling me how much he loved the first DLC, because the area was like a King's Field dungeon. I didn't have that comparison to reference, but definitely got Zelda vibes myself. Lots of traps and just a really cool temple. The second DLC, is then basically Stonefang Tunnel from Demon's meets the Iron Keep from DS2 and was incredible. Then the third DLC was like a frozen Bolatarian Palace.

I also cannot emphasis enough, as someone who has platinum's on all of these except DS1 (too grindy), I think the DS2 DLC is harder than NG+ in any of these games. 80% of DS2 is a cake walk compared to the other games, but I probably couldn't even prepare you enough for the DLC. It will destroy you. Guaranteed. It's a catastrophic 180 compared to the base game. And the DLC areas are massive, insanely memorable.

Majula is probably my favorite hub next to the Nexus. Love the theme too.

Also both times through DS2 on the PS3 and then PS4, was my favorite online experience with this series by miles. I actually went out of my way to do tons and tons of Covenant stuff and team ups, etc. The online community and PvP areas are incredible. Still easy to ignore if you want, but something about this game over the others reeled me in with these elements and I loved them.

DS2 is huge and offers the most magic, items, etc, every online encounter was unique, and the possibilities with new characters is endless. I can't put it into words, but something about DS2 is extremely "game-like" in incredible ways. The game is just pure bliss fun.

[Gunstar Green]

DS2's atmosphere is not on par with the others and the boss designs are lackluster and cheap looking, also spammed a bit too much. There's so many bosses. But other than that, I fucking love DS2. I've seen others bring up Life Gems and I just don't see how that's a big deal, lol.

That's the thing, it's got the mechanics of the other games (sort of, the combat is weird and weightless) but none of the feel or the spectacle. A lot of things here would be perfectly acceptable, even good in any random fantasy action RPG but they feel phoned in or out of place in Dark Souls. It feels at times like a more fantasy focused spin-off than it does part of the rest of the series lore.

The life gems aren't a HUGE deal but they do completely change the pace of the gameplay. I never go into a boss fight worrying I'm going to run out of heals and it kind of makes me play more carelessly than I otherwise would. I've just facerolled through most of these bosses (people complain about Wolnir and I agree with those complaints to an extent but HOLY COW is the Old Iron King several thousand times lamer, and he's supposed to be one of the main four). Sometimes I go from bonfire to bonfire without using a single estus. It's never been a relief to see a bonfire.

The only times I tend to die are when they decide to ambush you with stupid huge mobs with no warning. The enemy placement in a lot of places is pretty bad though I'm not sure anything is quite Lost Izalith bad. Deaths in this game have largely been more frustrating than the others because there are times where I really felt I couldn't have avoided it.

I do like how non-linear it is, sort of, because it also means that the difficulty curve is kind of busted since I'm way stronger and all of the paths are balanced around you doing them in any order. I still like being able to go, "I'm sick of this area," and check out a different one.

DS2's incoherence in terms of level design is odd and makes the first half of the game a little unmemorable area wise since a lot of them are short, but I read some good article years back I wish I could find again that was a cool deep dive on some DS2 theories. Basically, you're in purgatory and it's not supposed to be logical. That's a cheap cop out and I can't relay the message as well as the article dissected it and the entire game, but yeah. There are a lot of good areas later on in the back half of the game absolutely worth seeing.

It's a fun theory but I really doubt that was their intention. Though yeah, things have been improving and some of the more interesting level gimmicks are showing themselves so I'm starting to see what DS2 fans like about it. The areas are getting better and I'm starting to enjoy myself more though the world itself still hasn't endeared itself to me. I'm not in the "kind of hate it" zone anymore. The variety is a good thing but I can't also help but wonder if it's a "kitchen sink" issue where the game could have been better with fewer, tighter areas and bosses instead.

Majula is probably my favorite hub next to the Nexus. Love the theme too.

It's pretty and I guess it fits the overall brighter tone of the game (which is weird because the plot and many NPCs are arguably even more hopeless and nihilistic). I don't really care for the music. Now that I think about it none of the music has been really standout. My favorite will always be DS1's Firelink Shrine since it's connected to so many things brilliantly.

Also both times through DS2 on the PS3 and then PS4, was my favorite online experience with this series by miles.

I like the chaos that comes with being invaded but I never actively seek out PvP. It's just not my thing. I went into that bell tower thing not realizing it was a PvP arena and got my ass handed to me several times.

DS2 is huge and offers the most magic, items, etc, every online encounter was unique, and the possibilities with new characters is endless. I can't put it into words, but something about DS2 is extremely "game-like" in incredible ways. The game is just pure bliss fun.

Eh, I don't care how much content there is if the core game isn't really jiving with me.

But as I said, it's growing on me and I'm finally at a point where I want to see what's next compared to when I started and just wanted it to be over so I could say I gave it a fair shot.

[Gunstar Green]

So just as I thought I was finally getting into a grove with the game or perhaps developing Stockholm Syndrome I get to Shrine of Amana.

Holy crap did I ever almost rage quit. It's one of the most tedious things I've ever put up with in a video game. This is the exact kind of difficulty that made me skeptical of the Souls series for so many years, the kind that just wants to irritate you and waste your time (I'm a strength melee build and had to resort to poison arrows which always makes me feel dirty). I'm glad Demon of Song was a pushover (the asshat invader directly before him was way harder, he was a pretty neat concept though, way more memorable than a lot of bosses so far) because I never want to see that area again as long as I live.

I also had to resort to a guide in Drangleic Castle because I didn't know how to get the elevator to work and apparently one of the changes in SotFS made it extra confusing.

[isiolia]

Not the first I've seen people complain about it, but, personally, I like Shrine of Amana. You do really need to bring a bow and/or be good at pulling, but it's a unique area. One of the few that really favors a ranged playstyle, kind of like a Dark Souls sniper level. It's at least a lot more fun than the Iron Keep types with swarms of the samurai knight things.
While bows are potentially useful at points in all of the games, I think i've gotten the most out of them in DS2.

[Gunstar Green]

Iron Keep was fun at first because the super-speedy knights surprised me but it got old fast. It's not my least favorite area since the Alonne Knights at least can't block for a change but I don't love it either.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the idea of Shrine of Amana, just how they carried it out. It should maybe be half as long. When I went through the first fog gate I was a little annoyed but felt relieved and was ready to move on. When I was greeted with another area to snipe things it went from annoying to utterly tedious. Then they throw that invading caster at the very end who's very likely to nuke you at least once as a final "screw you."

I find I'm using the bow a lot more as well, including in Iron Keep after I learned the enemy locations. I've used the bow to pull mobs in the others of course but in this game I'm constantly using ranged attacks to pull and oftentimes leading them to a door to get rid of them quicker. It's starting to feel like an MMORPG in that I'm more likely to cheese enemies than I am to fight them fair and sometimes I wonder if the designers wanted me to cheese enemies. It might also be the overabundance of tanky enemies with that same, "shield, swing, swing, swing, shield" move set that's starting to grate on me this late in the game.

I don't like to sound this negative but I'm only being so harsh because I love the series so much. I don't think DS2 is a bad game it's just a different game that doesn't work for me as well.

[isiolia]

I find I'm using the bow a lot more as well, including in Iron Keep after I learned the enemy locations. I've used the bow to pull mobs in the others of course but in this game I'm constantly using ranged attacks to pull and oftentimes leading them to a door to get rid of them quicker. It's starting to feel like an MMORPG in that I'm more likely to cheese enemies than I am to fight them fair and sometimes I wonder if the designers wanted me to cheese enemies. It might also be the overabundance of tanky enemies with that same, "shield, swing, swing, swing, shield" move set that's starting to grate on me this late in the game.

Far as I know (as I haven't played the original edition myself), a fair bit of this is due to the version - the remixed Scholar of the First Sin doesn't just move enemies, but it adds some as well, and changes AI (I think to make them more aggressive). Since one of the improvements was a boost in the number of players that could play co-op, the idea was likely to make things more interesting in that environment. For a single player, it's probably not as ideal. Making things no longer spawn after 10 kills (or whatever) at least gives a way forward regardless, albeit a very tedious one.
As you mentioned earlier, DS2 frequently just seems to have a bunch of mobs dumped into an area, which is a hallmark of the worst areas in any of the other games. It's only really bad occasionally, but something that's definitely not up to the standards of the series on the whole. It's not just in the base game either - some of the absolute worst areas in the game like that are on the way to DLC bosses (mostly the optional ones, but still).

I think more of DS2 is probably like that too, with just dropping in more. Much as they retooled the game in development, I suspect that other elements (like the Fragrant Branch of Yore and Pharros' Lockstone stuff) would have ended up removed in a Miyazaki helmed game, left as a footnote in a developer interview. He seems to refine things a lot, and drop elements that aren't as integral to the game. DS3 was supposed to have some system where you set your own bonfires, which got removed completely (probably why there are so many in that game, likely tacked on late in development). DS2, on the other hand, seems to have left a lot of that kind of thing in. It's very hit and miss, the end result is different, and I can understand putting it low on a ranking list. However, it does make it interesting - for as nice as DS3 plays, it's a very safe sequel. DS2 was not.

[Xeogred]

The first time I got to Shrine of Amana I was like

On my replay through the Scholar edition on PS4 when I got there I was like

10/10 level. Feels like an area straight out of Demon's Souls with a crazy gimmick and road blocks. I love it.

[Segata]

I watched SBF play all of the Soulsborne games except DS2 sorta. I watched maybe half of DS2 playthrough and the game looks rushed and just one of those sequels that forgets what people loved about the original. I can't comment how it plays but form them narrating it sounds like it made a bunch of changes not so welcome and a few that were welcome. Environments looked far more compartmentalized. It doesn't seem to give a good sense of progression compared to the first. It is no way seems like a bad game just the black sheep of the series. I believe Happy Console Gamers is correct in that every series has at least 1 black sheep game.

[Gunstar Green]

Making things no longer spawn after 10 kills (or whatever) at least gives a way forward regardless, albeit a very tedious one.

When I first heard about this I was confused, but having played it I understand why this concession exists now. It's not a great thing that that it needed to exist in the first place as it sort of flies in the face of every area being made to be beatable with persistence but there were a few moments where I was glad it did. I only really abused it once and that was early on at Heide's tower which was kind of silly for such an early area.

And before anyone gripes about my gripe, yes I know I could have just run past everything.

I think more of DS2 is probably like that too, with just dropping in more. Much as they retooled the game in development, I suspect that other elements (like the Fragrant Branch of Yore and Pharros' Lockstone stuff) would have ended up removed in a Miyazaki helmed game, left as a footnote in a developer interview.

Yeah, these are really half-baked mechanics and I had to ask myself a few times what the point was. They really should have been left on the cutting room floor.

for as nice as DS3 plays, it's a very safe sequel. DS2 was not.

This is certainly true, there are a few things I really liked that I wish were carried over. I've heard the torch mechanic is kind of useless in the original game but in SotFS I got a lot of use out of it and really liked some of the things they did with it like making some enemies afraid of the fire or lighting the sconces having different effects. My only issue with it was why bother making it a limited resource if you're going to give me so much of it that I'll never run out?

I think there's more that could have been carried over (seriously why go back to forcing you to eat one soul at a time in the menu, yes I know you can just sell them to the old lady for what they're worth but that's not the point I like eating them ) and I have a better understanding of why a lot of people who love the second game don't enjoy the third as much.

The first time I got to Shrine of Amana I was like

On my replay through the Scholar edition on PS4 when I got there I was like

We're apparently as far apart on this as we are close together on Gundam and Mega Man.

I will say this though, I thought Dragon's Aerie was a lot cooler than Archdragon Peak.

I think Lucatiel may also be cooler than Solaire as far as Souls buddies go (which is blasphemy I know), just not as memeworthy.

[Xeogred]

I want you to look at my status and where I am. I truly almost thought that I had completely ruined this run and was going to be permanently stuck in Ash Lake early game. For some reason I thought it would be fun to go there, when I was in the late 30's level wise. I fully believed for whatever reason that the Dragon Covenant at the end of Ash Lake could warp me out and back to Firelink or something pre-Anor Londo... no, it does not. And of course, I got cursed AGAIN with no purging stones in my inventory. I got all the items meticulously in The Great Hollow after countless deaths and finally reached Ash Lake. Battling the frogs was a constant scare. From there, the giant mushroom people could one shot me, the giant clams in Ash Lake could one shot me, and the Ash Lake Hydra's beam would one shot me if I got hit by it. I also never knew this Hydra will JUMP over to the other side on the way to the Dragon Covenant. I almost beat the Hydra when I first hit Ash Lake and had 10 Estus, but then with only 5 it was too hard as he was one shotting me and the barrage of heads charging through was too random. I spent a literal hour in Ash Lake just trying to survive and realizing I had to escape manually. Getting back to the first bonfire from the Dragon Covenant was one of the scariest experiences ever.

For the first time in my life, never have I been so happy to see Blightown again. I dare you guys to try and go to Ash Lake early game sometime.

I beat Quelaag first try before going. But still haven't done Darkroot or New Londo. I'm at Sen's Fortress now though and it's tough. Somehow this run seems harder than my last haha. All in all, The Great Hollow did have the stamina ring so that was a big win. I assume I will be able to warp to the bonfire once I get that ability.

Still running a Claymore+10 but Astora's Straight Sword is fun to use and I can get the fast roll with it. Just not sure if I want to invest Twinkling into it yet. I still haven't upgraded any armor and might keep going to see how long I can without. I've just been switching up my armor set this time depending on the situation. About 9 hours in and at Sen's Fortress seems really good so far.

Did DS2 and DS3 remove or enlarge the range of your summon signs? I never had issues of my "sign disappearing" in those that I recall. But it seems like in DS1 you have to stay specifically in that single area for whatever boss you want to help out with. I noticed doing this lowers the requirement for the Sunlight Covenant. Got summoned for Quelaag and was kicking her butt but then the player sent me home for some reason, I hope they died.

Also was FURIOUS to see the Firelink Firekeeper dead again. But...

I read doing the Anor Londo invasion and getting that soul is a way to revive her. In my last run I used this soul without knowing so never got her or Firelink back up again which sucked big time for the Four Kings run. Hopefully this goes smoothly this time and I can restore Firelink.