☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

Anything that is gaming related that doesn't fit well anywhere else

Your opinion of the Souls series?

I don't like these games because they are too hard.
0
No votes
I don't like these games because of another reason.
1
3%
I hate this series!
1
3%
I think these games are decent, just decent.
3
9%
I like these games primarily because they are challenging.
6
17%
I like these games because of another reason.
6
17%
I love this series!
8
23%
I've never played any of these games, but I'd like to.
7
20%
I've never played any of these games, and I never will.
3
9%
 
Total votes: 35

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isiolia
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Re: ☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

Post by isiolia »

Exhuminator wrote:I've heard horror stories of people getting deep into DS, only to find themselves with a build they couldn't finish the game with. I don't want to do that.
What's more common is that people think a different build will be an insta-win, when what they really need is more practice. I've been there, probably every Souls player has. :lol:
The differences you'd have would come down more to what you'd be equipping at a given time, since in general you'd be doing a STR based melee build (since that's what the big weapons tend to scale on).
Xeogred wrote: isiolia, a glass build is what I'd like to try out sometime for laughs haha. Do you have a really basic general blueprint for how you'd start and build a character like that in DS1? Running around like a feather and can't take much more than a hit or two, but have some sorcery nukes.
Offhand, you'd mostly just start with what's available for sorcery. It's more in the long term when you can start finding armor/accessories to drop defense or trade off HP/casts/etc for more damage. I mostly watched what was done in this challenge run which was cheat-engine limited to 1 HP 1 stamina (so sorcery really needed since other stuff didn't work).
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Re: ☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

Post by Xeogred »

Lobos is great. :lol:

FightinCowboy has some good videos too.
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MrPopo
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Re: ☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

Post by MrPopo »

Xeogred wrote:I'm pretty sure Popo here plays these like an slow elephant tank. You can be a better big piece of metal in Dark Souls than you can in Demon's. Maybe it'll fit your playstyle better. Did you not focus on stamina in Demon's? Like isiolia said it's a good stat to focus on for melee builds. Usually in my top 3 alongside HP and STR.
Dark Souls massively buffed up the armor in Dark Souls. Heavy armor very noticeably reduces damage and reduces your hit stun. Going full turtle build is very possible in Dark Souls, and in many cases was easier than trying the old dodge build. Then they overnerfed it in Dark Souls 2 and I switched to a full dodge build. Dark Souls 3 finally finds a good middle ground in my opinion; a full heavy build is not quite good enough without a major stat investment, but you can get a best of both worlds thanks to a more forgiving fat roll threshold so you can have medium-heavy armor to take a hit now and then and still have a decent dodge.
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Xeogred
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Re: ☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

Post by Xeogred »

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FML.

- Bell Gargoyles dead
- Capra Demon dead
- Gaping Dragon dead

But this has been way rougher than I expected. I think...

1) I'm rusty
2) Cleric base stats weren't great
3) Dark Souls is slower mechanically than all the other games, even Demon's. So it's a little different and my dodging isn't too clean
4) This replay is confirming my suspicions that Dark Souls is the hardest of them all to me personally

Overall I'm not hitting a brick wall or anything, but I've died way more than I expected haha. Maybe I just got too used to destroying bosses left and right on a first try like in DS2 or Bloodborne. And the trek to bosses in Dark Souls 1 is a little tougher, but still not Demon's tough. I also rarely seek summons for help in any of these games, but also realized why I pretty much NEVER do it in Dark Souls 1... because its humanity system is the harshest of all the games. Humanity items are so scarce and hard to come by, not to mention required if you want to kindle (saving this for the warp bonfires later on), and walking around in body form is suicide in this one online with overpowered player invaders. It all adds up to a more brutal rude awakening than the other games. I still think I'll have an easier time in the second half like I did my last run and then I was kind of steam rolling over bosses, but yeah. The gateway into Dark Souls 1 is still brutal, confirmed.

Also, I got cursed in the The Depths. That SUCKED. Had to grind to get 6,000 souls to cure the curse, otherwise the Gaping Dragon was too annoying.

Still haven't bothered to upgrade any armor, but I went ahead and got the Claymore up to +8 or something. I think it might be fun to change it up and use a faster weapon though later on, I'm thinking Astora's Straight Sword.
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isiolia
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Re: ☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

Post by isiolia »

If you were playing DS3 more recently or something that might be part of the clunkiness, since DS1 (and DeS) only let you roll in four directions if locked on, whereas 2/3/BB let you roll in any direction regardless.

The humanity system is differently implemented, but has some upsides as well. I mean, if you don't want to be invaded, play offline (just put Steam in offline mode before launching). Even then, there's not a lot of reason to stay in human form, I think. Nice to do so in order to kindle bonfires and then trigger an NPC invasions, if applicable for the area. Otherwise, if you don't want to summon or get invaded, might as well just stay undead.
As a whole, I think it's probably one of the more interesting implementations between the games. Figure, soft humanity is an across-the-board bonus that's both harder to build up, and easier to lose than souls. It boosts all defenses, increases item find, boosts damage on some weapons, and so on. Plus you can "spend" it on various things. It's more or less the early incarnation of Bloodborne's Insight, but much easier to lose. Still, maybe it makes sense in a thematic way, like you're resisting going hollow and have an easier time of it as you get more leveled up/established through game cycles. You literally end up managing/struggling to hold on to humanity :lol:
The way they implemented things in general also favors making humanity scarce in the early game - they're full heals you can spam. You can farm them pretty easily in mid/late game, or just end up with a fair amount over time.

The resulting changes in 2 and 3 work better mechanically, for what's presumably more the intended use/pattern, but I think DS1's setup is better in a thematic/lore kind of way that only Bloodborne really seems to follow up on.
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chuckster
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Re: ☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

Post by chuckster »

I know I'm late to this party, but here goes!

1. How did you initially react to the first Souls game you played?
(DS1)
"Oh that's a cool cutscene, I'm pumped!"
...
Man I'm so slow and weak, these skeletons are frickin' immortal, I quit.

2. If you do not enjoy this series, what are the reasons why?

Oh but I do!

3. If you do enjoy this series, what are the reasons why?

I'm in it 100% for the lore and the atmosphere/art. I know most people consider the Souls games to be the zenith of gameplay but even when I felt like the game was slow and janky, I was just enthralled by the world From built from such sparse materials. I have come to enjoy the combat and exploration as well, but it's that dead world full of tragedy that I am really playing for. Watching lore videos will blow your mind with how much meaning can be mined from those games.

4. What's your greatest and/or worst memory of playing a Souls game?
Probably either the first time I tried DS1 and felt like I must just be doing it wrong (I was), or the knights with Greatbows in the rafters of the cathedral in DS3. I'm not sure what boss that leads up to, but that part sticks out as super frustrating because of all the knockback. I eventually just rolled past the cathedral knights and GTFO.

The best was defeating the Yhorm the Giant in DS3 with Siegward, I worked so hard to keep that SOB alive and it just felt so good to see his story wrap up.

5. What's your preferred build and weapons style?
I did knight, focusing on Strength and Armor. I preferred a longsword+100% damage block shields. I'd whip out a greatsword every now and then if I was feeling confident during a boss battle. It was pretty much as vanilla as it gets.

6. Do you believe the Souls games have been influential on modern gaming, or do they stand alone?
I see a large influence on the indie scene, the 'drop loot as failure penalty' has been the most obvious trend I see that seems to have spread out from the series.

7. What's your opinion(s) of the various DLC packages available?
Never played any of the DLC, though the Ringed City sounded dope.

8. Do you believe the reputation of extreme difficulty in this series is warranted or overstated?

It's both warranted and overstated. The games are unquestionably hard, and on the extreme end of difficulty for action-RPGs. It's just that the difficulty is too often used in an initial description of the games, defining the games by only one end result of a lot of stellar game design. There are games that are much harder (arcade games for example) that were not defined by their difficulty, but by their gameplay and premise, and that's how I think it should be. Of course, expectations are different today.

9. Which Souls game do you believe is the best thus far?
I've only beaten of DS1 and DS3, and I liked DS3 a lot more. It just polished things up and felt like a more mature design. It would have been nice to have the world interlinked like DS1 but to me that's just a design choice and not a pro or con either way.

10. If you could make one change to the Souls formula, what would it be?
I'd like better explanations of stats and effects (DS3 took care of most of this), and I'd prefer more personal quests like Siegward's over covenants. I don't play online though, so I'm probably in the minority.


I'm installing Nioh as we speak, I will be able to play tonight after work. I look forward to trying out a game that seems at once so similar and so different from Souls.
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dunpeal2064
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Re: ☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

Post by dunpeal2064 »

I can't believe I never did this!
1. How did you initially react to the first Souls game you played?

Instantly fell in love. The atmosphere and weighty-ness just hooked me.

3. If you do enjoy this series, what are the reasons why?

I love that the games are both highly rewarding and very punishing, both in their combat and exploration. I love the "metroidvania" thing, as it feels like a large world built with a 16-bit mindset, in contrast to most of my experiences with open world games. I love the setting, atmosphere, scarce dialogue, all that good stuff.

4. What's your greatest and/or worst memory of playing a Souls game?

There are a lot of great memories for me. I remember early on in Dark Souls, my introduction to the series, exploring an area that I was certain was not meant to be explored (In Firelink, near the beginning), only to be rewarded hugely for doing so. Probably the most frustrating moment, in the same game, was Sen's Tower. It felt just a little too cheap while learning. :lol:

5. What's your preferred build and weapons style?

I am a BIG ASS SWORDS dude, in any game where I am given the opportunity. So, I tend to aim for being able to 1H a 2H bladey thing, preferably with some sweet effect on it, while having a shield up for footsies (Bloodborne aside, ofc)

6. Do you believe the Souls games have been influential on modern gaming, or do they stand alone?

I'm not up to date on modern gaming in general, so I'm not sure if its had an influence on AAA games. I do know that some games have taken the formula (NioH, that cyber game, Lords of the Fallen), and indie gaming most definitely seems to have been inspired.

Aside from its specific design decisions, though, I think the message has been delivered that "Nintendo Hard" games are still viable, and handholding isn't necessary.

7. What's your opinion(s) of the various DLC packages available?

Oddly, I waited until both complete versions of DS2 and DS3 were available, to have all DLC on disc... and have yet to touch the dlc content of any of the games.

8. Do you believe the reputation of extreme difficulty in this series is warranted or overstated?

Certainly overstated. The games are punishing of missteps, but are only moderately difficult when starting. The biggest factor in difficulty from there is the player, as I tend to find these games cripple under a solid character build (Not speaking to what I would call optional difficulty, in which you make builds in order to challenge yourself. There is certainly high difficulty to be had here if one wants)

9. Which Souls game do you believe is the best thus far?

My favorite two games are Dark Souls and Bloodborne. I think Bloodborne is probably "The Best"

10. If you could make one change to the Souls formula, what would it be?

This might not be within the spirit of the question, but knowing that they are done with Dark Souls for now, I want to see them use a similar formula to explore a sort of post cyber punk world. The distopian atmosphere would work really well in this setting (Granted, as a raving fan of stuff like Ghost in the Shell, Blade Runner, Akira, Alien, etc, I am heavily biased). Not a straight booming cyber city though, but a run down, once-was sort of place, preferably with some Giger-esk fusion of the unknown with technology.

(Totally Optional Question: How many Souls games have you beaten, and what's your opinions of them?)

Dark Souls - Just lovely. Aside some mechanical quirks that would later be ironed out, I think this game just nails everything. Again, some bias may be in place, as this was my first exposure to the series, with little hype or anything, so it just blew me away. I think I have the entire world of this game memorized.

Dark Souls 2 - Still quite fun. Mechanically, this feels the most fleshed out, with tons of different viable builds and crazy weapons, a bit of faster movement, all that. The world connection felt weaker to me, though, and less natural. I didn't feel alost in a sea of wonder as I did in the first. I imagine that, for anyone that pvps, this game would score high, but the pvp isn't for me. (I intentionally play offline to avoid those hint things)

Dark Souls 3 - My least favorite of the series, mostly because it takes steps back towards the first, but ends up falling somewhere between 1 and 2. A lot of zones that just felt too familiar and samey. There wasn't a "wow factor" to finding a poison marsh or something, when I had already done so in previous games. Its not that the game is bad, none of them are, but it felt like it was running out of ideas. It also feels not entirely finished. I do like adding abilities to weapons, though! Very cool concept.

Bloodborne - This, imo, is the perfect sequel to Dark Souls. It keeps the spirit of the game most intact, even more than its actual sequels, while not coming off as tried and tired, due to its fresh setting and revamped combat mechanics. If I had to pick an objective best, this is it. Its lore is fantastic, the world is gorgeous, the combat advancement was brilliant. It just blows my mind that they so flawlessly updated their combat to move players towards what they thought the most fun method of play would be, without being restricting at all. Genius stuff.

I have not played Demon's Souls.
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chuckster
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Re: ☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

Post by chuckster »

dunpeal2064 wrote: This might not be within the spirit of the question, but knowing that they are done with Dark Souls for now, I want to see them use a similar formula to explore a sort of post cyber punk world. The distopian atmosphere would work really well in this setting (Granted, as a raving fan of stuff like Ghost in the Shell, Blade Runner, Akira, Alien, etc, I am heavily biased). Not a straight booming cyber city though, but a run down, once-was sort of place, preferably with some Giger-esk fusion of the unknown with technology.
Giger-esque sci-fi Souls is the possibly the best game pitch I've ever heard.
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isiolia
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Re: ☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

Post by isiolia »

It'd be nice to see Fromsoft attempt one.

Otherwise, however, if you haven't seen 'em... The studio behind Lords of the Fallen earlier this year released The Surge, which is a sci-fi Souls-like. I haven't tried it yet as I was lukewarm on their previous game.

Bandai-Namco is also looking to fill their Souls-shaped void with Code Vein, which is post-apocalyptic vampire stuff, skewing a bit more towards more anime type design, which might end up fitting what you're looking for.
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dunpeal2064
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Re: ☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

Post by dunpeal2064 »

isiolia wrote: Otherwise, however, if you haven't seen 'em... The studio behind Lords of the Fallen earlier this year released The Surge, which is a sci-fi Souls-like. I haven't tried it yet as I was lukewarm on their previous game.
I, similarly, passed on The Surge, due to not being a big fan of Lords of the Fallen. A good buddy, who is even more into Souls stuff than I am, was not into it at all, and the videos I've seen of it, at least from an atmosphere perspective, seem to miss the mark for me. May still give it a romp if I find it cheap, but I think From could do this style infinitely more justice.

Code Vein does look interesting though, have had my eye on that one!
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