Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?

[Sarge]

eventually it'll be hip to hate it

Versus right now how it's hip to love it?

Exactly.

[marurun]

And on the heels of that, I'm going to invite a little heat on myself.

I think the PC Engine is the most important console of the 16-bit era. I didn't say best or most popular. But I think it is the most important.

1. The PC Engine was the first console entrant of the generation.
2. Hudson, a major Nintendo partner, had pitched their hardware design to Nintendo and Nintendo hadn't been interested.
3. Nintendo didn't start developing a 16-bit successor in earnest until the PC Engine started to eat away at the Famicom's market share.
4. The PC Engine's core instruction set was 6502-based and thus familiar to NES devs interested in making the jump to the next generation. This may have also motivated Nintendo in choosing a 6502-compatible CPU for the SNES.
5. Hudson partnered with NEC, a computing and electronics giant. NEC already had a presence in gaming in Japan through the PC-88 and PC-98 computer platforms.
6. The PC Engine CD-ROM peripheral was the very first CD-based home console system ever introduced.
7. The PC Engine CD-ROM was actually successful, unlike the Sega MegaCD/Sega CD.
8. In fact, a hardware upgrade to the CD-ROM format, the Super CD-ROM format, was also successful (that's 2 major hardware upgrades).
9. The PC Engine successfully transitioned to CD-ROM based game publishing. In 1993 only 10 HuCard games were released, as opposed to 70 Super CD-ROM games released that same year (and 5 regular CD-ROM titles). In 1994 the number of HuCard releases was down to 2 and Super CD releases were up to 75, along with 7 Arcade CD releases.
10. The PC Engine's success at selling CD-based games effectively predicted the 32-bit generation of gaming.

Without the PC Engine, Nintendo might have delayed their entry into the 16-bit market, complacent to ride out the Famicom's unrivaled success. There's no guarantee Sega would have been able to successfully challenge Nintendo in Japan with the Mega Drive in the absence of the PC Engine. The Super Nintendo would then have emerged later as a response solely to the US market success of the Genesis. The 32-bit era would, in all likelihood, have been CD-based even without the PC Engine, as NEC and other manufacturers were still prepared to introduce CDs to computers. But NEC and Hudson arguably cemented the early model for CD games. However, Nintendo might not have experimented with a CD add-on during the 16-bit generation without the success of the PC Engine CD format, meaning Sony might never have been tempted to enter the console space. It's possible that without the PC Engine and the PC Engine CD Nintendo's 32-bit competitor would have been CD-based instead of cart-based and there would be only Sega as competition, no Sony.

Yes, yes, I'm having WAY too much fun making wild guesses and retrospective prognostications, but I think I still manage to make the point. The PC Engine is the most important 16-bit console by virtue of being transitional in two different spaces: transitional to the 16-bit generation (the GPU was 16-bit, so don't give me that 8-bit CPU argument; no console is monolithic) and transitional to CD-ROM gaming.

[Gunstar Green]

You forgot another effect the console had, Sega specifically launched the Genesis before the TG16 to get a jump on the US market and Michael Katz and Sega of America made sure to have games and promotions targeted squarely at US audiences in direct response to the TG16's more Japan-centric library.

Part of Sega's success in the US market can be tied to how it responded to this competition. Investors thought that the US market was going to continue to mirror Japan's so they wanted to be sure they buried the TG16 before that could happen.

[Exhuminator]

You've made some very compelling arguments Maru. It's very feasible to say the PCE forced SEGA and Nintendo's hand in moving to a new generation. There are arguments to make that show how Hudson and NEC were their own worst enemies too.

There are a lot of interesting games on the PCE/PCE-CD that I'd like to try. Plenty of action titles. I do wish more of its visual novels/aventures/RPGs got English translations though. That'd help its popularity for sure.

[isiolia]

The reason it's probably getting so many 10/10s is that most reviewing outlets give the job to someone that has familiarity with the source material. They're going to typically like the genre already. But don't worry about dissenting; eventually it'll be hip to hate it, kind of like how popular sentiment rapidly turned against various Zelda games.

I think it's come up before here (probably when BoTW came out) that Nintendo games seem to enjoy a bit of a bonus to their scores, at least for some of their marquee franchises. I suspect it's largely due to earlier entries basically defining their respective genres for the folks doing the reviewing. Then it's circular, since even if/when more varied opinions are made known, Odyssey will likely remain one of the top rated titles to date. So down the road - per review scores - that's what a perfect example of that genre looks like.

That said, personal enjoyment is always a separate measure. Not caring much about Nintendo franchises is really no different than not really caring about the latest FIFA title or something.

[marurun]

There are arguments to make that show how Hudson and NEC were their own worst enemies too.

Oh, absolutely. In Japan NEC and Hudson made the relationship work, but the way the relationship was structured caused total chaos in the US thanks to some crazy missteps. Sega definitely worked hard to dominate the US games market, but their hard work was made all the more successful by NEC's total ineptitude.

[Sarge]

Well, maybe EA Sports in general, anyway. Nintendo has a pretty decent breadth of software output.

Maybe it's true Nintendo games get a bit of a bump. Then again, they often either invent or reinvent a genre, or present an amazingly polished take on existing genres. Breath of the Wild took elements of the open-world genre, put that distinctly "Nintendo" spin on it, and ended up with a spectacular game. I'm not sure I prefer this take to the older style (I mean, I loved Skyward Sword, which apparently a lot of folks dislike), but it's definitely got quality in spades.

I also expect that score to come down a bit as a few more reviews come out. It always does. Super Mario Odyssey isn't really "new", but not everything has to be to garner a "perfect" score in my book. We'll see if I'm still ebullient about the game once I've put more time in, but as a Nintendo fan, it's been an awfully good year.

(And to be clear, when I say "fan", I'm not actually tremendously keen on several of Nintendo's properties. I don't get terribly excited about Mario Kart, or Splatoon, or the Mario Party games, or Animal Crossing, and even stuff like Fire Emblem.)

As far as the PC Engine is concerned, there's not a lot of the US output that appeals to me, but I still want a Duo. I find it fascinating how successful it was in Japan, and wish that same success had been found here. Pretty funny that they had their act together in Japan, and Sega had their act together here.

[marurun]

You forgot another effect the console had, Sega specifically launched the Genesis before the TG16 to get a jump on the US market and Michael Katz and Sega of America made sure to have games and promotions targeted squarely at US audiences in direct response to the TG16's more Japan-centric library.

Sega couldn't have done this at all if NEC America hadn't sat on the PC Engine for almost 2 years before releasing it to the US market. Had NEC been more confident and aggressive they could have hit the US market hard before Sega had anything to offer. And if they had actually started to capture adequate market share, they might have been more aggressive courting developers to expand their game offerings that would appeal to western gamers.

[BogusMeatFactory]

Well, maybe EA Sports in general, anyway. Nintendo has a pretty decent breadth of software output.

Maybe it's true Nintendo games get a bit of a bump. Then again, they often either invent or reinvent a genre, or present an amazingly polished take on existing genres. Breath of the Wild took elements of the open-world genre, put that distinctly "Nintendo" spin on it, and ended up with a spectacular game. I'm not sure I prefer this take to the older style (I mean, I loved Skyward Sword, which apparently a lot of folks dislike), but it's definitely got quality in spades.

I also expect that score to come down a bit as a few more reviews come out. It always does. Super Mario Odyssey isn't really "new", but not everything has to be to garner a "perfect" score in my book. We'll see if I'm still ebullient about the game once I've put more time in, but as a Nintendo fan, it's been an awfully good year.

(And to be clear, when I say "fan", I'm not actually tremendously keen on several of Nintendo's properties. I don't get terribly excited about Mario Kart, or Splatoon, or the Mario Party games, or Animal Crossing, and even stuff like Fire Emblem.)

As far as the PC Engine is concerned, there's not a lot of the US output that appeals to me, but I still want a Duo. I find it fascinating how successful it was in Japan, and wish that same success had been found here. Pretty funny that they had their act together in Japan, and Sega had their act together here.

You hit the nail on the Nintendo stuff. The reason why people are going gaga for Mario is because this game is giving fans exactly what they have been asking for. They have been clamoring with this style of Mario game for so long. Even though Galaxy scratched that itch, it still wasn't that full scale game people wanted.

As for not getting a lot of Nintendo games, I understand that as well. Nintendo franchises appeal to very specific people so it makes sense for once person to be super into one franchise, but not the other.

For me, I am not into Kirby or Metroid... I try, but it never clicks with me.

I think everyone just needs to take some deep breaths and accept the fact that people will actively dislike something and just come to terms with it. Their opinion will not actively make your experience worse unless they are pointing you out specifically.

I get people having impressions on a game from just looking at video footage, but I do also believe that the only real way to truly make claims is to play it.

[isiolia]

Sega couldn't have done this at all if NEC America hadn't sat on the PC Engine for almost 2 years before releasing it to the US market. Had NEC been more confident and aggressive they could have hit the US market hard before Sega had anything to offer. And if they had actually started to capture adequate market share, they might have been more aggressive courting developers to expand their game offerings that would appeal to western gamers.

To be fair, Sega of America did a lot to get a lot of American retail outlets carrying things other than Nintendo, along with pursuing publishers. At least with regard to the Genesis. I mean, I didn't live in the US for a lot of the 16-bit era, but for the areas that mostly just had Wal or K-Mart to go to (like where I lived), not-Nintendo or Sega brands were much harder to find.