NeoGaf is likely no more.

[dsheinem]

It isn't enough to pass any kind of legal sentence on someone, but it is certainly enough for us to make individual decisions about what we think was likely, how we choose to respond, etc.

It is not enough to deliver any kind of justice, but there is enough to create a witchhunt so I would rather not.

Huh? What do you mean “deliver any kind of justice”? The owner has a history of allegations (and their own admissions) circling around them...they are being confronted with yet another...and their mods quit the site because they feel strongly about it. Supporting those mods and stopping support of NeoGaf and its owner is not about “justice”...it is about having enough information to side with the folks who think it is time to stop supporting the owner’s endeavors. We don’t have “proof” of Harvey Weinstein’s or Bill Cosby’s or Donald Trump’s alleged assaults, but I sure as shit have heard enough from enough people that I have no interest in supporting any of them in any way on any thing.
--

By the way, fuck Jason Schreiner.

I thought Kotaku’s reporting on GAF yesterday was excellent, as was Jason’s comment at the end. https://kotaku.com/neogaf-goes-dark-aft ... 1819755151

What is the problem?

[Erik_Twice]

I think they mean Jason Schreier, from Kotaku. Why, fuck him, I don't really know.

Because he does not care about sexual abuse and never has.

First, let's get this out of the way: Schreier knew about Evilore's past. It's impossible to post in NeoGAF for as long as he has and not know about the "buying nudes with a PSP" thing because people brought it up over and over. Same with the Eurotrip thing. He knew and never said anything until now. Worse, he claims to not have known and blames Gamergaters for his misinformation.

But okay, let's take him about his word. Let's imagine he does find Evilore's acts "appaling" and he indeed did not know about his past. Why didn't he care about Gawker then?

Because when Gawker was outing gay people, he didn't care. When Gawker made up rape accussations against celebrities for fun, he didn't care. And when Nick Denton posted a video of a woman being raped and then mocked her afterwards when she asked for the video to be taken down, he didn't care. Well, he cared, for Gawker. The man is a massive Gawker and Nick Denton apologist and was often called on it by NeoGAF and others. It's a shame NeoGAF is down because he spent a lot of time excusing them there. He has never, ever condemned the actions of Nick Denton and Gawker concerning abuse.

So yeah, funny how he finds Evilore's acts "appalling" but not those. He's the kind of shit that allows this stuff to happen: All antiharrassment and feminist except when it would cost him something to stand against it. The gist of it is that Nick Robinson is not the only creep in the bussiness and I don't trust Schreier to be on the right side of things.

His previous coverage on the subject of rape and sexual harrassment has also been shameful. When the creator of CAH was accussed of rape, he allowed blatant massive ethical breaches on the part of his writers, down to asking the accussed to apologize, whether he commited the crime or not because "statistics indicate he probably did it" and it's good for real victims. It's one of the worst articles ever written by Kotaku staff.

His coverage on the Naughty Dog harrassment allegations was even worse. He simply went around asking random people whether they knew that the potential victim was harrassed and added a bunch of unrelated "the victim is crazy" stuff, that doesn't prove anything but shits on the potential victim. It was disgusting and a textbook example of how not to conduct a sensitive investigation.

So yeah, I think he is a piece of garbage, an unethical journalist and the last person that should ever write about this subject.

[dsheinem]

I’d like to read more about that stuff, ET...can you post some links? I don’t think I know about the Gawker stuff or the poor articles you are referencing.

As an aside, though, isn’t your judgment of Schreier here pretty similar to the judgment you are asking us to withhold about Evilore?

[Erik_Twice]

I’d like to read more about that stuff, ET...can you post some links? I don’t think I know about the Gawker stuff or the poor articles you are referencing.

Here's the article on the Max Temkim accussations. It was written by Patricia Hernández and edited by Schreier. Since it was very controversial the article has been heavily revised since its original publication but the gist of it (and the comments) remain. Note that even Tolito thought it was not cool:
https://kotaku.com/a-different-way-to-r ... 1605542083

The article on the Naughty Dog acussations is this one. It was written by Schreier himself. It starts off well but the last bit is just speculation and unrelated bits that shit on a potential victim:
https://kotaku.com/former-naughty-dog-e ... 1819557683

(The article you mention, however, is much better. There are still ethical issues (Evilore was not approached for comment) and the writing is somewhat salacious and the analysis of GAF's ban culture is wrong and takes other people's claims at face value, but it's not as wrongheadead as the previous two, IMHO)

As for the rest, Shcreier is being accssued of ignoring previous allegations on Twitter right now. Someone posted a picture that shows the gist of it, but you can find many other people saying the same:


Personally, I don't think there's a way he didn't know even if he somehow ignored the hundreds of people telling him about it. Seriously, everyone who has ever posted on NeoGAF knew it and it was often referenced. I mean, most posters here knew about it, how is he not going to know?

As for the caping for Gawker and Nick Denton, there's a bunch of stuff. He has never condemned either for their abuse and often jumps to their defense by saying something like this:

"While I think Gawker/Nick Denton did some bad stuff that I don't agree with it, they were taken down by petty rich men seeking revenge, not because they did something wrong".

He often got into debates in NeoGAF about the subject and they all went like that. He never said anything bad about Gawker and was never explicit about what exactly the problems with Gawker were (That is, he never said "they posted rape videos" or "they outed gay people", he just said "bad things" or "things I don't agree with"). He also ocasionally defends them on Twitter, remains in contact with people from Gawker and even drops small defenses on Gawker in his articles. And all his defenses are the same kind "yeah, they did some bad stuff, but they were ultimately good and didn't deserve any kind of legal punishment or people badmouthing them".

I think it's fine to disagree with me here, but I really don't like the guy. And not because of my usual "game critics suck" thing, this is serious.

As an aside, though, isn’t your judgment of Schreier here pretty similar to the judgment you are asking us to withhold about Evilore?

Yes and no. Basically, none of the stuff I've said of Schreier are accussations. I have just read stuff he himself has said or done and I judge him for it. But I don't judge him because of something other people have said of him without proof.

So, so far, I have no position on Evilore's sexual harrassment accussation. Of course, I do think he's a sexual harrasser because of what he did to the girlfriend of the administrator of a rival but that's not an acussation, it's, well, a fact you can easily check.

Basically my issue with this stuff is societal. I should reserve judgement because I'm not the right person to make claims or judge. I think it's fine for people to make personal decisions based on this, but it should not move to a societal (firing, boycott, public shamings, etc.) level without proof. I explain myself super poorly, but that's the gist of it, I think.

[dsheinem]

Thanks for the links - I will check them out soon when I have some time....

So, so far, I have no position on Evilore's sexual harrassment accussation. Of course, I do think he's a sexual harrasser because of what he did to the girlfriend of the administrator of a rival but that's not an acussation, it's, well, a fact you can easily check.

You know he's a harasser, but you don't have any position on this accusation? I don't understand how your position wouldn't be at the very least one of "well, that seems likely."

If it was demonstrated that I had ripped people off in BST regularly for years, and then someone else accused me of doing so, wouldn't you have a position on that accusation? Wouldn't you be likely to believe it?

Basically my issue with this stuff is societal. I should reserve judgement because I'm not the right person to make claims or judge. I think it's fine for people to make personal decisions based on this, but it should not move to a societal (firing, boycott, public shamings, etc.) level without proof. I explain myself super poorly, but that's the gist of it, I think.

But that's all I am suggesting - that you might reasonably make a personal decision to frequent/support NeoGAF (or not) based on what seems to be likely true or not. I also think that, given this person's history, that a "boycott" or "firing" is absolutely defensible and prudent. I know it isn't a neat analogy, but I think Harvey Weinstein absolutely should have been fired from the board of his company after all those allegations accumulated. At that point, it is really up to him to disprove the claims and to use lawsuits, etc. to restore his reputation and standing if he is in fact innocent.

I don't know that I like "public shaming" in any context, but that is often an uncontrollable effect (e.g. in social media) of more defensible actions (e.g. "firing"). The court of public opinion is not subject to the same rules as a court of law.

[ElkinFencer10]

I say bring on the former NeoGAFers; I'm sure flake would love an excuse to dust off his ban hammer.

[Blu]

Ah yes, a complacent man who is in a position of power to expose sexual assault, and will be remembered for being one that props up rape culture. That's what Jason Schreier is. He looks like a schezy fellow as well. I feel bad for the knowledgeable, caring folks who liked NeoGAF; at the same time I am fine that the god-awful stuff goes down. It does not matter that the mods called out homophobia; they failed in other areas and such blame can be assigned. In the same instance, the mods are culpable for not having the backbone to quit earlier when they probably learned of the assaults. It's culture like this that contributes to instances like Brock Turner getting six months in jail after sexually assaulting a woman.

Edit: Dave -- why is public shaming such a bad thing when claims often don't stick, and justice is often never served? I feel like this type of outrage and shaming is often all that's left when the justice system fails.

[yaktaur]

I had an account there but it always moved way too fast for me to keep up so I ended up never reading it. I don't know if many NeoGaf boarders would end up here though, it always seemed like a New Games board to me.

[Exhuminator]

On the other hand, I'm apprehensive about bringing in a community of people with notoriously bad attitudes.

I say bring on the former NeoGAFers; I'm sure flake would love an excuse to dust off his ban hammer.

I think these two statements are shortsighted. Sure there were some jerks on NeoGAF, just as there are on any forum. That doesn't mean the majority of folks there were. I wasn't kidding when I said there were some very knowledgeable and respectable members on that board. I hate to think a potential new great Racketboy member who used to frequent NeoGAF, may come by here and read statements like those quoted, and then choose to not register here. Racketboy's forums would benefit from new members. If you're an ex-NeoGAF forum member and you enjoy thoughtful discussion on games, don't hesitate to register here.

[marurun]

I would welcome any of NeoGAF's former members, as long as they read and follow the forum rules and don't create a mess for the mods to clean up.