"gamer logic" nonsense that annoys you

[marurun]

Dude, seriously, you are not arguing in good faith. Let's drop it, ok?

Edit:

And it actually makes me a little angry that you think this is a legit way of looking at games.

I can see that, so please drop it. I'm not interesting in this.

I don't know, man. Telling me I'm not arguing in good faith doesn't seem like a really good way to convince me that we'll just have to agree to disagree. You're the one who claims to not be "afraid to say someone is playing wrong." But you don't seem to want to deal with the implications of that judgment. If you mean this particular debate seems deadlocked, that's a better reason to end this particular discussion.

[ElkinFencer10]

No, man, we're down your throat because you're being dogmatic and holier-than-thou about how to enjoy a game. We've all invested a lot in our hobby - and I don't mean money - and you're sitting here belittling and patronizing us for enjoying it differently than you.

[Erik_Twice]

But you don't seem to want to deal with the implications of that judgment

There are implications and there's random people on an internet forum getting angry and insulting you because someone has a different opinion on fucking videogames.

But hey, I'm the dogmatic "holier-than-thou" one here, not you or ElkinFencer.

[Gunstar Green]

I think "you'd have to be stupid" was just a poor choice of words on his part. I don't think he was necessarily calling you stupid.

There's no reason for this discussion to devolve into something petty, I thought it was an alright debate.

Let's try not to have any hurt feelings over something so silly.

[marurun]

There are implications and there's random people on an internet forum getting angry and insulting you because someone has a different opinion on fucking videogames.

But hey, I'm the dogmatic "holier-than-thou" one here, not you or ElkinFencer.

Having a different opinion is more like: "I like FF7." vs "I don't particularly like FF7."

Saying that other people are enjoying their hobby wrong and that there is a right way to fun, and they are clearly not funning correctly, is not just an opinion on video games. That's an almost definition case of "holier-than-thou" pronouncement. That's the difference. Do you see why that rubs some of us the wrong way?

[BogusMeatFactory]

Whoah! Can't we all just agree that we can play games the way we like and enjoy them! No need to get all uppity

[ElkinFencer10]

Sorry I got bitchy, Erik....your argument did piss me off, but my response was inappropriate. I apologize.

[Erik_Twice]

Saying that other people are enjoying their hobby wrong and that there is a right way to fun, and they are clearly not funning correctly, is not just an opinion on video games. That's an almost definition case of "holier-than-thou" pronouncement.

And it's your duty as moderator to smite the fun-hater by being rude and throwing a tantrum?

It's an opinion. Get over yourself, you are doing exactly what you are accusing me of but ten times worse.

[Sarge]

I think it's incorrect to proclaim there is no wrong way to play games at all. Again, there's a spectrum here, and I think the truth lies somewhere between the two extremes. There are better ways to experience games, but there are also lots of valid ways to enjoy them as well.

I saw the example of credit-feeding shmups. I'm more than willing to admit that this is me in most cases. However, I can also acknowledge that a deeper understanding of the systems would likely bring me to a more significant enjoyment... although that would take more effort on the front-end on my part. It's the same way with Contra. True story, I used to not like that game at all, but now I do because of the time investment I've put in.

And yeah, no reason to go at each other tooth and nail, just some differences of opinion.

[marurun]

The only truly wrong way to play a game is a way that impacts negatively the experience of the game for others. If you go into a multiplayer game where everyone has a certain expectation and you deliberately troll it, knowing you are bringing down the experience for others, I think that's wrong, because then it's not just about you. It's about bringing others down. But if you are enjoying your game experience and it doesn't harm anyone else's game experience, I don't care what that game experience is or how you experience it. It's none of my business and it doesn't matter.

Edited to add clarification:

It occurs to me that some of what's getting to me is the semantics of the discussion. Wrong is a value judgment, but games are art and entertainment, and engaging with them isn't some kind of moral action.

Wrong:
1.
not correct or true.
2.
unjust, dishonest, or immoral.

This kind of heavy value judgment has no relationship to the world of enjoying video games. It feels icky to me to even think that way. I fully concede that there are optimal and suboptimal, intended and unintended, planned and unplanned ways of interacting with games. But the only way that can be truly wrong is one that harms others. No harm comes from speedrunners or TASers or people who just like to play their games in unintended and bizarre ways. People who challenge themselves to beat Mega Man only using the P weapon are in no way morally superior to people who credit-feed their way through shooters because they don't have the time and energy to spare for it. My college roommate was in no way having an inferior experience in the Sims because he chose to pursue questionable exploration of how the various systems work, or don't work as it may be. It is one thing to have an opinion about what the developers of a game intended the game experience to be, but it's another to use the word "wrong" which carries with it a value judgment of another person. You should see how some of those devs react when they sit in on AGDC or SGDQ speed runs of their games. It's a combination of awe at the runners' skills and horror at "What have they done to my game?" It's awesome. None of those runners are playing those games in a way that could at all be called the "correct" or intended way to play, but the end result is highly satisfying for them, the audience, and the charities the runners support. It's not wrong in the least. It's fantastic and delightful. Nobody is doing anything wrong.