"gamer logic" nonsense that annoys you

[PartridgeSenpai]

I think the biggest problem we're having here is with language. We all seem to agree, but we're just talking in circles because we're misunderstanding each other. Here's what I've been able to gleam from your conversation:

There is merit to the argument that there is a correct (or at least 'most' correct) way of going towards a game's stated objective. Chances are, if you follow this intended path, your enjoyment of the game will increase as you can more easily accomplish the stated goals. There are objectively better ways of working towards a stated goal.

There is not a merit to the argument that there is a correct way a game can be enjoyed. If someone enjoys just flipping around in Mario 64 instead of actually collecting stars, then that's perfectly fine. As long as one is enjoying oneself, they're subjectively fulfilling the intended purpose of the game (i.e. enjoyment). There are not objectively better ways of enjoying one's time with a game.

And another thing, I don't think the analogy of the steak works here. There is something legitimately dangerous about eating a raw steak versus one properly cooked. There is no inherent danger in playing a video game, no matter how you play it. Not to mention how properly cooked meat gives off more calories to your digestion, leaning towards my previous statement of how that is an "objectively" better way to eat food. Enjoyment is entirely subjective, and the method of attaining it is indiscriminate. A better analogy would be someone watching a film compared to not watching the screen and just listening to the audio. Neither is inherently dangerous, and both very well may lead to the viewer attaining enjoyment out of the experience, although one will certainly be more enjoyable for most people.

[Gunstar Green]

My cynical counter argument to shmup credit feeding is that games like Giga Wing 2 are legitimately designed for you to credit feed. They're designed to make you to die so you have to put more quarters into them.

Sure the concept of 1CC has developed in response to this, but that doesn't change their original intention which is to make you spend more.

For someone who does not belong to the small niche of gamers who tackle these games without dying I don't think having an issue with the game's intensity is an illegitimate complaint. It just means they can't appreciate the game in the same way others can and they probably don't even want to.

That's why reviews exist from different perspectives from broad general audiences to niche fans.

[marurun]

Let's not beat around the bush with absurd hypotheticals that have no bearing with reality. Games are an interactive medium and in order for them to work the player has to put something into them. Players who play "wrong" don't get joyful or meaningful experiences because, quite simply, the game isn't working properly.

Shmup credit feeding, not understanding grabs in fighting games, going "all-in" at all times...this stuff ruins games and we should talk openly about it instead of being afraid to say someone is playing wrong.

This is a ridiculous stand to take. You are basically suggesting that there is a "correct" way for people to enjoy things, something that I think PartridgeSenpai addresses quite well in his response. And those aren't absurd hypotheticals. Look at Sarge's example of his cousin enjoying playing by simply driving around in circles. It may not be the optimal way to play the game, but he was enjoying it. As soon as you tell someone their fun is the wrong way to have fun you are passing judgment on something that you have no business passing judgment upon.

And no, it doesn't ruin games. That's you imposing your view on others. This isn't about being "afraid" to call someone out. It's about someone, you in this case, deciding for someone else what they should or shouldn't be doing to have fun. That's just dumb.

[Segata]

I love Shmups but suck at them. I credit feed. I really don't care if someone disapproves how I play. It's my fun. Of course I try to not die and I have 1CC under my belt..not an impressive one but I do. Better than I used to be playing them. I'd say playing a shmup legit wrong would be letting yourself die so you can get bombs refilled and just killing everything with bombs. I often try to do no bomb runs myself.

Fighting games I do try for different things but like anyone I have a way of playing and for some fighting games I do ok,some not so much. A couple of them I rock at it lol. Guilty Gear Xrd. If plaing a fighting game and you spam the same move over and over and over and over and just nothing else..then yeah that's not right.

[Erik_Twice]

As long as one is enjoying oneself, they're subjectively fulfilling the intended purpose of the game (i.e. enjoyment).

One can enjoy a game without playing it or without fullfiling its purporse.

If someone has "fun" jumping around in Street Fighter without ever attacking the enemy, that's fine, but they are not playing Street Fighter in any meaningful sense.

It's also an abusrd hypothethical that represents nobody. People don't tend to play wrong because they actually like it.

And another thing, I don't think the analogy of the steak works here.

I think the point got across.

That's you imposing your view on others. This isn't about being "afraid" to call someone out. It's about someone, you in this case, deciding for someone else what they should or shouldn't be doing to have fun. That's just dumb.

Pfft. Oh yeah, I'm holding people at gunpoint. I kidnapped a bunch of gamers that were having fun with my blog and forced them to play no-items, Fox only.

Don't be ridiculous.

[marurun]

It's also an abusrd hypothethical that represents nobody. People don't tend to play wrong because they actually like it.

That is objectively falsifiable. I can in fact think of cases when others, myself included, have played games in a way you seem to think is "wrong" simply because it was fun.

When you indicate someone is playing something "wrong", you are basically accusing them of BEING wrong, meaning something they are doing needs to be "fixed" to be correct, and when it comes to games, that's total BS. And it actually makes me a little angry that you think this is a legit way of looking at games. Exploration of game rules and systems is in and of itself lots of fun. I know a guy who played the Sims the "correct" way only briefly before spending tons of time exploring the limits of the available systems, doing things like closing Sims into spaces to see how long it would take them to die. I think it was a little grim, but he was having a lot more fun exploring how the various systems interacted than playing the game as intended by the developers. And you know what? Who cares? Saying he was playing it "wrong" is passing a judgment, and an inappropriate one.

[Erik_Twice]

Dude, seriously, you are not arguing in good faith. Let's drop it, ok?

Edit:

And it actually makes me a little angry that you think this is a legit way of looking at games.

I can see that, so please drop it. I'm not interesting in this.

[ElkinFencer10]

I don't think I've ever played the story missions in a Grand Theft Auto game. If the missions weren't the intended thing to do, they wouldn't exist. Nonetheless I've dumped dozens of hours into San Andreas alone. I think you'd be pretty stupid to tell me all of that is "wrong."

[BogusMeatFactory]

Let's take a deep breath. A person can play anything, any way they like. I had a friend of mine and I play team fortress 2 on opposite teams, him as a spy and I as a medic. I would heal him in disguise and and he would kill all my team. I was dominating my entire team. they themselves weren't even mad. It was a 24/7 Server and my team at first were confused and then found it funny.

Games shouldn't be taken so seriously. You should play around with the mechanics in unique and unexpected ways. All games have players who abuse the system. Look at speed runners! I am positive developers didn't intend for players to play games like they do.

It is perfectly fine to do so.

[Erik_Twice]

For people who are so about how everything subjective and there's no right and wrong way to play you are extremely keen to jump on my throat for thinking differently, not sure if any of you has noticed that.

I think you'd be pretty stupid to tell me all of that is "wrong."

Meh, whatever. I'm not here to be insulted. I'm out of the thread.