"gamer logic" nonsense that annoys you

[marurun]

I mean, to a greater point, why do they have to be referred to as "games"? I'd suspect more for convenience or for the sake of marketplace/retail.

Some of the earliest games were text parser games. Visual novels also have choices you make that affect the outcome. Just because they are less interactive doesn't make them any less games. What, if we're being honest, do Pac Man and Horizon: Zero Dawn really have in common? It's silly and pedantic and pointless. Story games, visual novels, interactive fiction (IF), and so-called "walking simulators" are all video games, important parts of the uber-genre. Arguing otherwise is rather pointless at this juncture and only serves to alienate folks from the larger gaming sphere.

Which leads me to one of my "gamer logic" pet peeves: exclusionist behavior and language on the part of gamers. Calling folks "casual gamers" or discrediting games as "casual games", as if they somehow required less developer effort or thought to create and demand less of their players. This serves only to segregate the market, which is bad for games and for gamers.

[Erik_Twice]

While some people are dimissive and ellitist I don't think that should prevent us from calling a spade a spade.

First, I don't think games with zero player interaction like Shinkyoku Soukai Polyphonica or Moutain are games at all. They do not form part of the medium on either an artistic or mathematical sense.

Games minimal player interaction (Time Hollow, A Mind Forever Voyaging) are games in a mathematical sense but not on an artistic level. I don't think the difference between a game and a non-game is the amount of busywork necessary to make the text scroll.



Here's one: The idea that you cannot play games "wrong", which is anti-artistic and anti-gaming as a whole. Some ways of playing games are better than others just like barely thawed piece of meat is worse than a properly cooked steak.

Deep down, it's nothing but the gaming version of cultural relativisim.

[AppleQueso]

i dont think its physically possible to roll my eyes harder at that post

[Segata]

"gamer" Products that really have nothing to do with playing games. "Gamer grub" A bunch of junk food labeled for people who play video games.And lately everyone with these overpriced tacky looking Formula 1 desk chairs. They are labeled as "gamer chairs" What do they have to do with video games? Some of us as kids sat on the floor playing Atari/NES. Ok so you have a setup for PC gaming or streaming or whatever. Plenty of regular office chairs not over priced nor look tacky. Whatever floats your boat I guess. These are just 2 examples but there is plenty more. For me just putting the name "gamer" in it doesn't make it for gaming to me. What's next? "gamer enema" "gamer eye exam" "Gamer pregnancy kit!"

[AppleQueso]

seperating mechanics and treating all other aspects of a game as pointless window dressing is about as wrong a way to analyze an artform as it gets

[BogusMeatFactory]

People who constantly stick their nose up at others and are stubborn in an attempt to claim some superiority.

You can make a claim that the Sega CD version of final fight has more features than the snes counterpart, but don't you dare tell a person they are wrong for liking the snes version.

[isiolia]

What, if we're being honest, do Pac Man and Horizon: Zero Dawn really have in common? It's silly and pedantic and pointless. Story games, visual novels, interactive fiction (IF), and so-called "walking simulators" are all video games, important parts of the uber-genre. Arguing otherwise is rather pointless at this juncture and only serves to alienate folks from the larger gaming sphere.

As a generalized category of interactive entertainment software, sure. I would say it's similar, in that regard, to what you could dub a comic book or cartoon though. The basic terms - and many people's innate assumptions about them - don't logically cover the full spectrum of content out there. So maybe they become graphic novels and animated series instead.

To a point, I think the reverse is true though - better genre definitions could mean more people who aren't interested in gaming finding content they find interesting. As you had in there, calling things interactive fiction or similar is fine, same as visual novel aptly describes the content within them.

Which leads me to one of my "gamer logic" pet peeves: exclusionist behavior and language on the part of gamers. Calling folks "casual gamers" or discrediting games as "casual games", as if they somehow required less developer effort or thought to create and demand less of their players. This serves only to segregate the market, which is bad for games and for gamers.

It's poor when used derogatively, sure. Like you imply though, there are plenty of times when the same language could be appropriately applied. I think you'll end up with a bit of a split either way, since not all games end up able to cater to both ends of the spectrum.

[Segata]

People who constantly stick their nose up at others and are stubborn in an attempt to claim some superiority.

You can make a claim that the Sega CD version of final fight has more features than the snes counterpart, but don't you dare tell a person they are wrong for liking the snes version.

This happens to me with Aladdin. I prefer the SNES version. I have both and the Genesis version is fine. I prefer the SNES version. I like that it closer follows the film and he doesn't have a sword but it seems I always been wrong liking this version over the Genesis version.

[Sarge]

I don't think it's wrong to at least note differences in interactivity within a medium. If you want to continue to call it a game, by all means, go ahead. But games very obviously reside on a scale of required player input, and games like visual novels skew heavily towards the non-interactive side of the equation. (And I have enjoyed quite a few, but it's much more akin to reading a novel than playing a game, in my mind... hence the name.)

Edit after isiolia's post: That captures my sentiment better than I've stated it here.

[Sano]

This whole thread makes me shake my head...