Classic games economics and ethics

[marurun]

I was just joking with that last post. The real problem is, why are we looking for someone to blame? There are bad actors in any space, but without monopoly or oligopoly power, they cannot control the market. SNES game prices are higher because more people want them. That's it. There are scalpers and hoarders, but blaming them for this is like blaming solar flares for global warming. It sounds good but is wrong.

I need to get my SNES hooked up again. I could use some Super CV IV.

[Betagam7]

I'm reading it as "this hobby used to be fun before people started to engage in it and now I actually have to spend money to engage in it thanks to competition for a limited supply."

I've always had to "spend money" to enjoy my hobby. My hobby didn't change because some people decided their house would look amazing if it were wallpapered with cartridges, but my ability to actively partake in it sure did as a result of the scalping and pay anything mentality that followed this second summer of nostalgia.

When I was a kid growing up these games were usually out of my price range. For a brief period of adulthood I entered a Utopia where I could suddenly afford all of the games I'd ever wanted. Roll on ten years and I'm back to my childhood situation. I shouldn't be staring at a similar price gap when I'm a fully salaried autonomous adult.

Let's also eliminate the "limited supply" argument. there is a limited supply of EVERYTHING. However SNES cartridges and particularly SUPER FAMICOM carts are certainly not the endangered species that people now like to make out. This is the exact kind of Storage Wars rhetoric that has fueled the maddening price gouging. We are talking about the SFC not some obscurity like the Gamate!

Walk the streets of Akihabara and pop into any of the hundreds of shops where unsold cartridges line the walls...then go on Ebay and witness the 300% markup in prices from the Japanese sellers who have now cottoned on to the fact that so many westerners are paying what they see as insane prices. Notice how the same copies of these games sit on ebay for up to a year and can be searched for and bought at ANY GIVEN TIME. So rare you can literally always find them...The idea that supply is outstripped by demand is woefully inaccurate in the vast majority of cases.

Another point about Ebay that someone wisely pointed out on here and that has only fueled the price gouging. Ebay is no longer an auction site. It's a BIN shop encouraged by a business model that generates bigger and better profits this way. The true value of these games has now been lost as when listing EBAY automatically recommends "the going rate" which it calculates by the ever increasing madness of BIN price gougers who sit with their unsold products artificially increasing the perceived value year upon year.

Everyone's a winner: Ebay makes more money, price gougers laugh all the way to the bank, affluent collectors line their houses with unplayed copies of Holy Diver and those of us who used to enjoy playing videogames and didn't have to be millionaires to do so are left shaking our heads at the madness of it all and going to Aliexpress to get a new cart for $10 only to often be ridiculed because our plastic shell has a different circuit-board to the plastic shell other people payed $200 for....

[PartridgeSenpai]

As someone who does sell a lot of stuff on eBay, I gotta put my weight behind the idea that it's not some grand conspiracy. I look at recently sold listings and price my stuff at what I see people will generally pay. If people aren't paying the price I want, I lower that price to get a faster sale. A merchant cannot sit on unsold merchandise forever just because they think some magical force will come along and buy it. Things go up in value because consumers are willing to pay that price.

[o.pwuaioc]

As someone who does sell a lot of stuff on eBay, I gotta put my weight behind the idea that it's not some grand conspiracy. I look at recently sold listings and price my stuff at what I see people will generally pay. If people aren't paying the price I want, I lower that price to get a faster sale. A merchant cannot sit on unsold merchandise forever just because they think some magical force will come along and buy it. Things go up in value because consumers are willing to pay that price.

No one said it's a grand conspiracy. That was hyperbole from people who bristle at the idea that *gasp* shady people could in fact cause a price hike for all of us.

Also, it's simply untrue that merchants can't sit on unsold goods for a long time. I've seen plenty of games stay on ebay for years (2+). No sale I make is out of necessity. I could have spent years sitting on certain stock. I dislike clutter and am not out to make slimy kerdos, so I sell when I want and, like you, lower prices if I want to move them more quickly, or just feel like cutting a break. I've also given away games for free when I could have made a cheap buck.

Like many, it's not that people sell, it's how and why they sell. Just read this thread to come to terms with what people are actually saying, rather than relying on strawmen.

[Gunstar Green]

I don't think anyone (here at least) is ridiculing anyone for buying repros. It's a personal choice. Some people find them acceptable and others don't. Some people prefer flash carts. Some people just go with roms and emulators. Whatever is good enough for you and makes you happy.

Repros are of course not strictly legal but I think most people here would be hypocrites if they complain about that. I don't think anyone here really cares how anyone else chooses to play video games.

As far as the market goes, it is what it is. This happens with all collectibles, especially finite ones (this is generally only perceived in this case since the supply of most games does usually outstrip the demand). Either it will bust like comic books did and only the truly rare stuff will still be worth something in the next decade or it won't.

If the random "me-too" collectors are really a problem, they won't be forever once they decide to move on to the next thing. There's already been a pretty big wave of people selling off entire collections and if you go to any convention you'll find stacks of unsold Earthbounds. That can't last forever. The stock will need to move eventually and retro gaming won't be the hot, hip thing forever. Predatory re-sellers will move on to whatever's next.

Until then though, why would anyone try to sell for less than market value? It's not greed to sell something for what it's selling for.

[Sarge]

The other thing to keep in mind is that the folks that have all the SNES nostalgia right now aren't just newbies, they're guys that actually have a pretty sizable amount of disposable income now. I blame the six-figure tech guys in California, honestly.

I'd also like to clarify, if it wasn't already so, that I'm not judging folks for using repros. As I mentioned, I have a few of my own, I use flash carts, I use emulation, I have burned games, and I have a ton of legit titles as well (definitely well over 1000 now). I'll play my games however I can get 'em, and while I prefer legit, I'm not going to drop scads of cash on, say, Hagane, which is apparently the priciest mainstream release on the system. I do try to buy digital re-releases when they become available for titles I love, though.

[marurun]

Even though Neo Geo emulation has been perfect for years, I picked up the Metal Slug collection for Wii a few years back. Totally worth it.

[marurun]

I am creating this thread to contain some of the discussion that has opened up in another thread about the current classic games market. They are important discussions to have, but maybe not where they are currently taking place.

The point is to talk about all the things that contribute to the current state of the market for classic games: supply, demand, scalpers, hoarders, collectors, digital alternatives, retro consoles, emulation, reproductions, etc...

[Gunstar Green]

I'd like to add that when I was talking about repros' effect on the market it wasn't the effect on price that was my concern. My entire collection could become worthless tomorrow and I wouldn't care because I didn't buy those games as an investment.

My only concern with repros that can't be distinguished from the originals easily is like any counterfeit product they have been used to deceive people.

Of course that cat is so far out of the bag at this point that it doesn't really matter anymore. There's no putting it back.

[marurun]

I am concerned with repros that are almost or completely indistinguishable from originals AND repros of titles that are unaltered versions of games that are otherwise commercially available. Hagane, for example. It's expensive and a bit hard to find, but so what? I am more forgiving, personally, of translations for games we never got. I also don't mind repros of games that have new, improved translations (retranslation of FFIV, for example) as long as the buyer also owns the original release. And even the case of a buyer buying a repro bothers me less than the folks who manufacture and sell them. There's a guy out there selling repro Magical Chase carts for the TG-16. I'm pissed that the guys making the repros made them and the guy selling them for $80 or whatever is selling them. The buyers are just dupes. It's the makers and sellers who are the issue.