☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

[Exhuminator]

I find the atmosphere and lore to really add to the experience - That's something I have yet to see similar games replicate.

If there's one true inspiration I see carried from the King's Field / Shadow Tower series into the Souls games, it is the atmosphere. If you enjoy the morose and tense feeling the Souls games provide, you'll find their quasi-predecessors to be quite influential in that regard.

I say "quasi" because make no mistake; the Souls games are NOT spiritual successors to King's Field or Shadow Tower. That's not just me saying it either, multiple personnel from FromSoftware have been quoted as saying so. I feel I should point this out, because I was irritated to learn all the years of reading official reviewers and forum members say Souls was a "spiritual successor" to KF/ST... that just turned out to be hogwash. They either said that out of sheer ignorance or parroting misinformation.

I can't say much in the yea or nay category because I've not put in the sort of time to really come to a concrete stance on the games. Maybe one day.

I think the technical and challenging gameplay would appeal to one side of your gaming personality. However, the dire horrific vibe that permeates the experience probably wouldn't. I've never known you to gravitate to really dark and eerie games. Not that you can't handle them, they're just not your usual cup o' tea.

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I'll attempt to answer my own questions, admittedly a bit limited by my current inexperience with the whole series:

1. How did you initially react to the first Souls game you played?

Demon's Souls is my first. The first play session was like; "OMFG this game is actually hard! Maybe the collective internet isn't just full of big whiny casuals. Oh wait, doing some reading, looks like Demon's Souls is probably the hardest. But still! This game is crushing my nuts! Looks like it's time to Git Gud™."

2. If you do not enjoy this series, what are the reasons why?

At this point in time, I think I enjoy this series.

3. If you do enjoy this series, what are the reasons why?

Because unlike 95% of the 7th gen console games I've played, this series actually respects the player enough to legitimately challenge them. I don't feel like I'm being coddled by kid's gloves, or patronized to death with insipid tutorials. None of that No Gamer Left Behind bullshit zeitgeist here. And yet the difficulty is fair, never contrived. Beyond the challenge, I also am absorbed by the somber atmosphere, vague yet tangible plot, and the constant feeling of discovery as you slowly make progress. It's like climbing a dark and mysterious mountain, very easy to slip and fall, but every new foothold brings a higher joy.

4. What's your greatest and/or worst memory of playing a Souls game?

My wife watched me play as I fought the Tower Knight for the second time. I got up to him, and he shield bashed me, and I died on the first hit. Then the words YOU DIED appeared and my wife started laughing. In between laughs she said: "Really? That's all it says? YOU DIED?" Yes dear, I died. I died like a weak little bitch.

5. What's your preferred build and weapons style?

Right now it's a hit hard / take hard hits soldier. I don't know how far this is going to get me, but so far I'm doing alright. We'll see if this build can defeat 2-2's boss. If it can, I guess I'm in the clear. I was tempted to use a royal and ranged magic, but that's just piss easy mode all things considered.

6. Do you believe the Souls games have been influential on modern gaming, or do they stand alone?

I'd like to believe they've re-convinced Japanese developers that gamers do actually value challenge in their gaming. I think I've seen some influence in that regard over there lately.

7. What's your opinion(s) of the various DLC packages available?

I don't know yet, haven't played any of it yet. Although from what I've heard, it just sounds like extra challenges really. Maybe not so much exploratory splendor?

8. Do you believe the reputation of extreme difficulty in this series is warranted or overstated?

If I were to answer that question after my first play session, I would say the difficulty was extreme. However, after learning more and increasing my skills... no, the difficulty is not crazy. The only times I die really, are either because I'm trying to rush too fast, or I just get careless and try to hack'n'slash too many enemies at once. You just can't play this stuff like Diablo. If you fight methodically and strategically, the difficulty is quite balanced. At least until you step back off a ledge you didn't see and die miserably.

9. Which Souls game do you believe is the best thus far?

I can only say Demon's Souls, because I haven't played the rest yet.

10. If you could make one change to the Souls formula, what would it be?

Regarding Demon's Souls, I wish there was a soul repository at the Nexus. I'd like to be able to dump unused souls into a bank of sorts, storing them until I need to withdrawal them. If not that, then the ability to disable system NPCs from saying the same damn lines of dialogue over and over every time you interact with them.

[isiolia]

If there's one true inspiration I see carried from the King's Field / Shadow Tower series into the Souls games, it is the atmosphere. If you enjoy the morose and tense feeling the Souls games provide, you'll find their quasi-predecessors to be quite influential in that regard.

I can see that, and it's why I played throught Ancient City, which it succeeded in here and there at least. I haven't tried the others yet though.

I don't know yet, haven't played any of it yet. Although from what I've heard, it just sounds like extra challenges really. Maybe not so much exploratory splendor?

The DLCs are all quite satisfying from an exploration/lore standpoint as well. Many of the bosses aren't just regarded as the hardest, but also among the best.

Regarding Demon's Souls, I wish there was a soul repository at the Nexus. I'd like to be able to dump unused souls into a bank of sorts, storing them until I need to withdrawal them.

I try to make a point to spend leftover souls on consumables/ammo to keep them from going to waste. Holding on to item-based souls (Soul of a Hero, etc) until you need them to round out a level or something can also be nice.

Lords of the Fallen does let you deposit XP towards upgrades to avoid losing it, and balances it by resetting an XP multiplier when you do. It's a good approach that keeps something of a risk/reward nature.

[Sarge]

I can't say much in the yea or nay category because I've not put in the sort of time to really come to a concrete stance on the games. Maybe one day.

I think the technical and challenging gameplay would appeal to one side of your gaming personality. However, the dire horrific vibe that permeates the experience probably wouldn't. I've never known you to gravitate to really dark and eerie games. Not that you can't handle them, they're just not your usual cup o' tea.

I can handle some dark stuff, and the general vibe of the game doesn't bother me. Believe it or not, though, I really have to screw up a lot of courage to play highly technical or difficult games. Not because I don't end up enjoying them eventually, but because I know how much effort it's going to take me to climb that mountain. I have to be in a very particular mood to really engage with those types of games.

Of course, there's also the matter that I'm much more well-versed in older games at this point, so I "speak the language" a lot more fluently with NES platformers (and third-person actioners like Devil May Cry), lowering that barrier of entry.

(Actually, a good recent example is having played through Vanquish. Given I don't play too many FPS/TPS games, there was a somewhat high barrier of entry for me on an already technical game that sees fit to add a lot of mechanics and non-standard controls compared to something like Halo, which enough games have aped that I actually have a good deal of muscle memory for despite not playing them that often.)

[MrPopo]

If not that, then the ability to disable system NPCs from saying the same damn lines of dialogue over and over every time you interact with them.

So the world might be mended.

[Xeogred]

I'm gonna be that guy, but this is weird in General Gaming. All the other game specific threads were in RPG I think.

7. What's your opinion(s) of the various DLC packages available?

I don't know yet, haven't played any of it yet. Although from what I've heard, it just sounds like extra challenges really. Maybe not so much exploratory splendor?

That's propaganda.

Basically imagine if Demon's had some DLC and added a 6th and 7th world to explore. That's essentially what they are in these, awesome new areas to explore and new bosses. They aren't some lame new modes or time attacks, crap etc.

===============================================

1. How did you initially react to the first Souls game you played?
brunoafh here nudged me into them. I'm happy I still played Demon's when it was a bit underground, even when Dark Souls 1 was out. I was ready to kind of turn the corner from the 360 and start giving my PS3 a little more love, which began with Nier and then Demon's. The rest is history...

brunoafh was basically my only source of assistance and tips outside of the wikia. It was about as obscure as it gets when I played it, which made it even more surreal haha.

I was incredibly perplexed and intrigued by what I was playing. The control scheme, mechanics, just everything about it was bizarre. But I never put it down and plugged away at it for weeks before conquering it.

2. If you do not enjoy this series, what are the reasons why?
NULL

3. If you do enjoy this series, what are the reasons why?
Because they remind me of Secret of Mana.

These games are arguably dungeon crawlers and 110% purely and completely gameplay driven. By that, I mean you the player do absolutely everything and are never interrupted. This is hands down my favorite type of game in game design, so it's just perfect for me. Yeah, these games are challenging at times, but I find them to be far more serene and relaxing than most modern games out there, or the movie types like Uncharted that are constantly stripping control from the player and pulling you out of it. Souls feels like they have NES/SNES DNA flowing through them, with a modern coat of paint and look. Your objective is to beat levels and kill bosses. Perfect.

Also, this franchise is everything modern Castlevania should have been.

4. What's your greatest and/or worst memory of playing a Souls game?
Greatest = Getting the Pure Bladestone in Demon's to finish off the platinum. This drop is rumored to have a drop rate of 0.5-3.0%. It took a week of farming or something.

I can't think of any bad memories. There's a few bosses I got stuck on here and there but powered through it.

5. What's your preferred build and weapons style?
STR focus with Faith for Lightning attributes on stats/scaling/some spells, with Silver Knight Armor set and a simple Claymore.

Basically I like STR melee builds but favor a little agility, so I stick with mid sized weapons or normal greatswords and armor.

6. Do you believe the Souls games have been influential on modern gaming, or do they stand alone?
I think they've helped influence stuff and move things forward. The comparisons are tiresome to hear about, but there is no denying I've played some great indie games or whatnot where the creators cited Souls as an influence in a positive way. It's good to see some challenge in games again.

7. What's your opinion(s) of the various DLC packages available?
They are excellent and should be played. Dark Souls 2's is my favorite and arguably some of my favorite levels in all of these games. I need to play Dark Souls 3's.

You will rarely see my suggest DLC, but these more than make the cut and weren't lazy leftovers.

8. Do you believe the reputation of extreme difficulty in this series is warranted or overstated?
Somewhat but not really. But in this era? Certainly. It's great to finally get some games that respect the player and let you problem solve situations on your own. But eh, Link's Adventure is tougher than all of these. etc.

9. Which Souls game do you believe is the best thus far?
Demon's is my favorite but I'd give them all 10/10's. I never predicted a new modern franchise would rival my love for Zelda.

I appreciate that Bloodborne does its own thing. But I vastly prefer Dark Souls' aesthetics and larger variety in its environments.

10. If you could make one change to the Souls formula, what would it be?
I just wish they would go back to a hub/level based format again like Demon's. With all the refinements and advances now, it would be cool to see them take another crack at that style.

But I'm glad Dark Souls 3 might be the last. Granted, Bloodborne did extremely well for Sony so I'm sure they want more of that From Software love. But with five perfect games of this formula in the bag, I'm cool if they left it at that. I would like to see current day From Software go back to first person.

(Totally Optional Question: How many Souls games have you beaten, and what's your opinions of them?)
You've seen my novels about them.

The only platinum I don't have is Dark Souls 1's, because it requires a lot of boring farming to max out weapons of every single elemental type, etc. Just not up for that. I would say Demon's and Dark Souls 2's platinum's were the most satisfying. Bloodborne's was pretty easy and Dark Souls 3 wasn't hard, just took awhile with some farming.

[Exhuminator]

So the world might be mended.

You have a heart of gold, I can tell you're not going to last long here.

I would like to see current day From Software go back to first person.

Absolutely! But I don't think that would happen until the Souls formula started to stagnate and no longer sell as well as it does. I'd love to be wrong, and I might be. FromSoftware said in 2017 they would release a "reboot of an existing franchise":

http://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/ ... s-for-2017

Of course everyone already knows what I want that existing franchise to be.

--

I guess you guys have me sold on the DLC. I might have to unfortunately get my PS3 online after all. I haven't done it because of all the horror stories about people waiting hours while mandatory firmware updates download. If I sat down to play my PS3, and instead I had to wait 45 minutes while it updated itself, I would be incredibly irritated.

[MrPopo]

FromSoftware said in 2017 they would release a "reboot of an existing franchise":

http://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/ ... s-for-2017

Of course everyone already knows what I want that existing franchise to be.

I can only assume Chromehounds. We need more mecha games.

[Exhuminator]

On the real it might be another Armored Core.

[Xeogred]

Armored Core could use a little redemption by this point. 4 was okay, but I haven't really loved them since 2.

I think Dark Souls 3 was Bandai Namco's best seller of all time (someone correct me?), but overall I'm not sure if the initial fan response was lava hot. There's not a slant against it like there is on Dark Souls 2 "waaah Miyazaki didn't direct it!", but yeah. As a long time fan now I think they really do need to take a big break here and let it rest for awhile. Plus there are many allusions and things in Dark Souls 3 that truly make it feel like the franchise has come full circle and will now sleep.

This is a formula I could easily keep playing and eat up. But these games are timeless and just as amazing to replay, it's insane there's five games of this style and caliber. From seem to be true workhorses. I'd keep playing them but I would also be content if this was it. I got hundreds of hours out of all these and will continue to revisit them forever.

Miyazaki has said Dark Souls 3 is and isn't the last about 20 times over the last year or two though. So it's hard to take them seriously by this point. I think some of us are waiting to see if anything goes down at E3 this year.

Knowing you... I'm assuming you already own most of these games? Since they often get re-releases with the DLC included, you could pick those versions up instead:

Dark Souls Prepare to Die
Dark Souls II Scholar of the First Sin
Dark Souls III: The Fire Fades Edition
Bloodborne Game of the Year Edition

Not sure if you guys mentioned The Surge yet, but it's dropping soon. The second game from the Lords of the Fallen guys. But this one looks pretty cool and polished, I might check it out. I've gone back and forth on Lords of the Fallen and last I looked into it, it just looks kind of lame and too easy. Plus, then I ask, why not just replay one of the Souls games again instead?

I would love for From to do their own sci-fi Souls though. I know that probably sounds hilarious, but I'd love it. Or something more like Shadow Tower Abyss, from the little bits of that game I saw, it seemed to have that weird neo gothic Thief/Quake/Dishonored kind of thing going on with a lot of contemporary/sci-fi elements mixed in with fantasy, that would be an awesome blend to see in a Souls format too.

[Exhuminator]

Knowing you... I'm assuming you already own most of these games?

Yeah you know me. I own Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, and Dark Souls II on PS3. I own Dark Souls III on PC. I don't have a PS4, so I haven't bought Bloodborne yet.