World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[CRTGAMER]

@ BogusMeatFactory - I posted a detailed reply on your questions on the O'Reilly interview and Russia on the previous page. I threw a couple questions back your way if you would like to look into them.

@ marurun - Response to your post as well on the previous page.

I'd like to get an honest take on this. Put your loathe and contempt to Trump for the side and think this one over.

Gen Flynn was an undermining ass, he needed to go, that's clear. But what about what happened that got to that point? We have a situation here where our own intelligence agencies are leaking out information much like that cracked dam spillway in northern California which is very much not legal in any sense of the word. We have people from the inside of there and hold overs from the previous administration working within/around the Trump administration effectively spying and leaking government protected information to undermine the executive.

How do you feel about this and what should be done about it? Forget it's Trump for a moment and let's say it some faceless suit to keep it truly neutral. Basically asking how would you feel if the tables were turned and what kind of response is needed. Transparency is nice but only to a point that it doesn't cause a breakdown in trust and security too.

I think some people are in serious line for some well deserved jail time if they can find the sources.

Agree, National Security due to insider leaks is the number one concern in the Flynn situation. Leaking secret information to the press was done as another undermining of the nation's president. You want to talk about spies, what of the democratic spies assigned from the previous administration holding allegiance to the "party" (not Russia, but democratic party) entrenched in the CIA and FBI who are supposed to service the nation and not a political agenda.

General Flynn should have never lied to the Vice President. He was entrusted for a Security Briefing position to the President and needs to be 100% truthful. The President did right requesting Flynn to step down, though should have done that up front. There are two things to ponder.

1. Was the Flynn Russia public meeting and phone calls legal?
The Democrat Congress are all over this as a conspiracy even accusing once again to Russian Hacking of the vote thru (never proven) Wikileaks exposure of Hillary Clinton email. If that door is open, then bring up government run news of the Democratic (DNC) main stream news media collusion and the Hillary Clinton email coverup.

The legalities of the Russia TV station dinner and Kislyak’s phone calls is beyond our guess and the congress. Now that is something judges and courts should look into instead of undermining President Executive Actions; XO actions is something Congress should focus and leave Flynn to the fate of the courts.

2. Should individuals that released the Secret information to the Washington Post be investigated and prosecuted?
Absolutely, find the scumbags and prosecute. The same to Flynn if proven illegal. This is the real issue, the leaking of secret information to the newspaper and the newspaper publishing it. The meeting though public in Russia and phone calls especially is considered as a level of secret that was not privy to the public, reasons that we do not know.

Michael Flynn and Russia: A timeline - http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... a-timeline

[Tanooki]

Probably amuse some of you, but I agree with the contents of all 3 posts. That's what I was trying to get at as I wanted to see what the thinking was here pulling as much as possible (since its inspired by) Trump out of the equation.

Transparency is good, but at some point, lines to get crossed and when they do I agree prosecution is needed.

Knowing Trump though, if he can not figure who did it in the intelligence agencies there's going to be a mass round of firings involved with people who are hold overs from the last administration that were(are?) loyal still to them. Paranoia is going to set in and a lot of people are going to potentially end up fired if some names are not rooted out and I really can't say I blame them either even if it isn't right. Just like Flynn, you break that trust, you're ass is grass. Damn shame the fools didn't fire his ass weeks ago if Trump himself knew that far back and it wasn't kept from him by some idiot underling until more recently.

[marurun]

I think the revelations of Flynn's communication with Russia are just as important, if not moreso, than the leak of that information. Again, with our poor record of protecting whistleblowers and lack of transparency leaks are going to happen. And until we fix the underlying cause, finding and prosecuting leakers is just going to be wasting the government's time (unless the leak is information for which maintaining secrecy is highly material to US security; the Flynn leak was of information for which that secrecy is not critical).

But we still haven't heard the results of investigations into whether the Trump administration has clean hands dealing with Russia, and this re-emphasizes that. If Trump knew for weeks that this inappropriate contact occurred but didn't act until it became public knowledge, what other inappropriate staff behaviors might he be allowing to persist?

Currently, congressional Republicans are expressing no interest in further investigation of Trump's administration. For partisan reasons this is understandable. But by going full-bore on calling for an investigation of the leaker and then completely dismissing the implications of the leaked information, they make themselves look even more partisan and petty. It's not about rooting out corruption or security issues, it's just about sweeping embarrassing information under the rug of secrecy. If we're going to pursue one in the name of national security we need to pursue the other as well. If it's important to identify and prosecute the leaker, then it's also important to explore how much the administration knew about Flynn's communication and why they sat on it, and what that may mean about the administration's relationship with Russia.

CRT, none of our reputable major media outlets claim, or have claimed, that Russia "hacked" our election. They all state correctly that Russia tried to influence our election. I have heard NPR on MULTIPLE OCCASIONS go out of their way to deliberately point out that there is NO EVIDENCE that Russia hacked into voting systems. I don't know why you keep hoisting that red herring as proof that the media is corrupt. Then again, I've never known you to let facts get in the way of a good partisan bender.

[CRTGAMER]

CRT, none of our reputable major media outlets claim, or have claimed, that Russia "hacked" our election. They all state correctly that Russia tried to influence our election. I have heard NPR on MULTIPLE OCCASIONS go out of their way to deliberately point out that there is NO EVIDENCE that Russia hacked into voting systems. I don't know why you keep hoisting that red herring as proof that the media is corrupt. Then again, I've never known you to let facts get in the way of a good partisan bender.

Reality Check
I never said the vote machines were compromised, you just did by the simple term of "Russia Hacking" in my previous post. The news media created that "Russia Hack" term, not me. It was used for months to sway public opinion towards possible vote count fraud (proven false) and not the (no proof who did it) Wikileaks exposure of their very own collusion to the DNC. This is as bad as Russian TV news; the U.S. government run news agencies including the newspaper posting the Flynn leak should be investigated and prosecuted. Journalists use to be held as high caliber, now most are pawns of the information control system.

DNC Collusion
Concerning the DNC collusion of mainstream news media how could they have been so wrong on the presidential campaign polls? Hillary Clinton was polled to win by mainstream news media, but was this a known insider lie to spur votes towards the designated winner? Natural that everyone connects to a winner and will lean that way when checking the ballot box. The polls back fired with concerns now that many who would have voted Clinton stayed home thinking of the easy win and republican voters came out in renewed vigor. Now THAT is a bit of irony when the government (thru the DNC collusion) controls the news.

[marurun]

CRT, that entire post is just wrong. Everything you got wrong. I'm not even going to pick it apart because there is no point. I will just accept that you are completely out of touch with reality and move on.

[prfsnl_gmr]

CRT, that entire post is just wrong. Everything you got wrong. I'm not even going to pick it apart because there is no point. I will just accept that you are completely out of touch with reality and move on.

Wow. I read that post too. I give it an F-. (You know how, with a multiple-choice test, you should get a certain percentage right just by picking answers at random? And, you know how it is kind of amazing when someone nonetheless gets every questions wrong? CRT's post is kind of like that. Just a spectacular failure.)

[dsheinem]

“The problem is that the people with the most ridiculous ideas are always the people who are most certain of them."

[CRTGAMER]

Ah, the normal left judgmental responses of a person with no meat of rebuttal.
Where is that Jack Nicholson "Handle Truth" picture again?

Prove Charles wrong, Banter already!

“To understand the workings of American politics, you have to understand this fundamental law: Conservatives think liberals are stupid. Liberals think conservatives are evil.”

― Charles Krauthammer, Things That Matter: Three Decades of Passions, Pastimes, and Politics

[marurun]

Ah, the normal left judgmental responses with no meat of rebuttal. Where is that Jack Nichoson "Handle Truth" picture again?

Ever heard of policy debate? It's one of the two key kinds of debate high school debate teams engage in. It's considered highly relevant to politics. Basically, you take a topic and debate it. But the way you get points is less about throwing out relevant information and more about flooding your opponent. Sure, you have to know the topic, but the people who do best are the ones who can talk the fastest. You throw out as many topics and points as you can in the hopes that your opponent cannot address them all. There's no substance to the debate almost, it's just a numbers game.

Sometimes that's what it feels like you're doing, except that you're also spewing nonsense instead of relevant information. There isn't enough time in the day for me to enumerate how you are wrong on all your assertions, and quite frankly, it's not my job to do that. Sometimes we must pass judgment in order to move on. You've given me more than enough information upon which to base my judgment. You constantly repeat the same misinformation and make the same unfounded claims. I can only rebut the same issue so many times. When I do counter your misinformation, I do it for others who might stumble into this thread and mistake your voice for the voice of reason. You're not interested in truth. You're interested in "Truth." You want what feels right, not what is right. You can keep your truthiness, because I don't want any of that Kool-Aid. My preference would be to do more sparring with Sarge, because even if we don't agree he's at least consistent and I can make sense of most of his views. As far as I can tell, you're just nutters. Sorry. I'm not saying it to call you names or make fun of you. I just legitimately think you're disconnected from objective reality. And given that you've denied objective reality and substituted your own, there isn't really a common ground to have discussion from.

[ElkinFencer10]