SpaceBooger wrote:Sarge wrote:It was more that I wanted you to say it instead of inferring exactly what you meant. I suspected your opposition was primarily rooted in DeVos. I'm going to be perfectly honest (and I know there are teachers 'round these parts), outside of some spectacular teachers, our public school systems in many areas are a mess. And I don't think these are issues that can be solved solely by throwing money at them. I have no issue with school choice. I have no issue with charter schools. I have no issue with "for-profit" education.
As far as indoctrination is concerned, that's also a claim that I hear leveled from the right all the time at the school system, and in some instances I can believe it. (For the record, I don't think Common Core is devil-spawn. I also have experienced three different forms of education: public school, private school, and home-schooling. I'm the most partial to the last one, but it isn't for everyone.)
I am a teacher and I agree and disagree about the state of public education. Here are a couple reasons:
1. I have been teaching 18 years and over those years the standardized tests used have changed six times. For three of those six tests the expected scores fluctuated from year to year leaving the state changing the required scores when too many schools had high scores. Last year was the first year we were tested on Common Core (which as a science and math teacher am a fan of)... not this year though, now we are taking the PARC test which is not based off of Common Core. Two different tests with different score sets/standards/scales, yet student's scores will be compared between the two different tests and then published to show growth or failure.
2. School choice takes money from public schools. In Ohio we loose more money per student that leaves our schools that the government gives us. Example say (not actual numbers) the state gives us 3k per kid at each public school, if a student in that district chooses a different school the original school pays 5k. That would be a 2k loss...and I think my made up numbers are low but they help to explain the damage the current system creates.
Also related to money, every time the state changes tests all material is instantly outdated. When the state changed to Common Core it totally changed what was being taught in what grade, the the new test changed that again. Publicly funded schools don't get more money to update books and material. We needed to buy new material for all Math and ELA grades 3-12 twice in the last two years. We didn't have the money, so us teachers spent tons of time and resources to make our own books, tests, and other materials. Next year we are required by the state to take standardized tests online... we don't have computer labs in our schools. We have one cart of 30 chrome books for every even numbered grade (not in 5th or 7th, but one set for 6th and one for 8th) this means one two hour test will take 16 hours at the school I teach at so that every student has the technology for two hours each. Now multiply that by 4 tests. I'm not complaining because we will make it work, I just want people to understand that not every school (I teach in a middle class community) is equally prepared and funded. Speaking of funding for public schools:
3. Almost 20 years ago the the Supreme Court of Ohio ruled that the current property tax funding of schools is illegal. Yet schools still are funded primarily by property taxes and asking the community to pay more taxes to fix and rebuild buildings and pay electric bills.
DeRolph v. State is a landmark case in Ohio constitutional law in which the Supreme Court of Ohio ruled that the state's method for funding public education was unconstitutional.[1] On March 24, 1997, the Supreme Court of Ohio ruled in a 4-3 decision that the state funding system "fails to provide for a thorough and efficient system of common schools," as required by the Ohio Constitution, and directed the state to find a remedy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeRolph_v._State
I typed this quick while my kids are playing and plan to get back to them instead of proofreading this post. I apologize in advance for grammar errors and/or run on sentences... I get kind of worked up when people accuse public schools for failing but don't mention the financial hardships schools are placed in by the same government that claims they are failing.
I do think that the leader of education needs to have more experience which could be used to improve and better a system that is broken not at the local level (stop blaming teachers and superintendents) but at the top (Federal and State).
Good post from the heart. Thank you for your candor, a direct perspective from a teacher in the field. I'm pooling my thoughts how to edit more in, this is such an important issue. I numbered my comments based on your numbered statements.
The Educational Secretary will NOT control the curriculum and setting up an "Indoctrination". The media stating that are playing a dangerous lie with our kids, offensive to even suggest such a thing. Most teachers focus on education and will never allow that. On the other hand,
is there indoctrination in some classrooms currently molding the youth to the teacher's opinions?
The teacher posted the video online, removed too late. -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EErfDEw05YI
Will a personal view be brought into the classroom? -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJa_s_2QX_c
Events such as the examples do make me ponder the current state of today's education. I believe most teachers are dedicated, but there are bad apples that bring in their own personal ideas not related to the subject. A realignment is needed because of this. I do wish that Betsey DeVos had actual classroom time as an instructor; experience is the best teacher. However as an Administrator pushing open school choice, maybe not as critical?
1. The standardized test as one of the requirements for public schools. This is why I never for years believed in charter schools or private schools which do not have a standard education set by the state. The idea of the standard, so students meet at least a set level. However, as you pointed out the standards keep changing. This to me seems to be tailored to improve the school image with a compromise based on the average of the current learned atmosphere. Of course this is just a perception as a parent, you as the teacher know the best evaluation method. Some teachers do not like the standards test since it does not fully evaluate a student.
Should the State Standard Test be maintained due to every teacher different with some excelling and others not up to par? 
2. You speak the absolute truth concerning funding making a difference in education. The teacher is the number one source for quality education, and needs support material to accomplish the goal. I speak this as a parent who had my daughter enrolled in a private school the first six years. The perception that the private school having a better quality control and smaller classroom sizes. The private school had no funding other then our payments and donations. I put her in public school more of to get back to the standard; realized part of the education is the exposure to all the students to survive in the real world. The more diverse crowd included many students who did not have an opportunity of private school; she had to catch up in both education and socially.
A good point as the state tests get changed that all support material get outdated! Some schools hand out laptops like candy for students to take home, a waste of funds when schools such as yours do not even have enough in the classrooms. There should be PCs for every student in only the classroom and not as a gift to take home. However, the PCs should be powered off daily to allow participation in dialog with the teacher and other students.
3. I did not know about the Ohio law challenging school funds and property taxes. This pools into what is wrong with how the money is spread out to Public Education. As a property owner I do not like my taxes going to waste, nor do I want to pay for a school that teaches religion. I did that thru private school for a few years, out of necessity for the after school child care and the FALSE perception that the private school would be a better education. Again part of education is the social diversity to survive the real world upon graduation.
As a property owners or renters, we all work hard and want the best for our kids. No question, I do support choice. However, I do not support my child being chosen not to attend the school where she lives. Just as I do not think it would be right for my child to bump another child in a more affluent neighborhood; their parents rightfully should have first choice in their neighborhood.
This leads me to a quandary. Of course as a society we want the best for all kids, finding the best future doctor, fireman, mechanic, soldier, politician, etc. However as a parent we will always want our very own children to have the best so naturally we do not want our property taxes going to another neighborhood that has lesser funding due to a lower tax base neighborhood.
Back to the choice in which I strongly support. It puts pressure on all schools to put out a better product. Parents will "shop" elsewhere if a school is failing. Perhaps this alone will reduce the importance of the state standard tests? The voucher approach opens up private schools which I do not think will work, though it more levels the school selection field pushing all the competition to do the best.
Candidate #1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ8S3ZnLq_Q
