World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

Talk about just about anything else that is non-gaming here, but keep it clean
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jp1
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Re: World is Falling Apart Thread (Be nice;stop changing tit

Post by jp1 »

"The spin" :lol:

O

M

G

:evil: :evil: :lol: :lol: :lol: :cry:

No thoughts on other peoples thoughts? Nope. How about some of your own?

Trying to "put the spin" on the issue with China and what they did is ridiculous, not to mention irrelevant.

Let me try and reiterate something...

I am pro-life in so much as that I believe when circumstances permit abortion should be avoided. I also don't believe in the death penalty because it is hypocritical and barbaric. Who should ultimately be the judge of who lives and who dies? If you are a right wing conservative because of Christianity, there is only one correct answer here. If you aren't a Christian there are no correct answers for that question.

I am pro-choice in so much that I do not dictate to other folks what they can and cannot do with their own bodies and lives, especially when I know fuck all about their situation. It isn't my place, or yours, or Donald Trump's. Try to consider the viewpoint of other people every once in a while. You don't know everything, only foolish people think that way.

Being so steadfast in your beliefs that you won't even consider the (verifiable) points put forth by your peers is dangerously stupid. The fact you won't even engage in a conversation with members who have remained respectful, unlike myself, is a clear indication that you have no intention of trying to grow as a human being. You are stamped and molded and unmalleable. Which begs the question, what is your purpose?

I suggest you venture outside your bubble and meet some of these people you despise so much, try to understand their plight, their motivations, their lives, then form an opinion that has some merit inside the real world. That is, after all, what you expect every liberal on the planet to do for you.
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Re: World is Falling Apart Thread (Be nice;stop changing tit

Post by marurun »

CRTGAMER wrote:
marurun wrote:I did not realize that Trump's executive order to limit immigration from key countries was illegal. Turns out US law expressly prohibits that sort of immigration discrimination. I am sure it will face legal challenge rather soon.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/o ... ebook.com/
Prohibiting immigration from certain countries is not illegal, this has been done for centuries. Putting the discrimination spin has no validity. Since when does a newspaper man determine law?
It was legal until 1965, when the law was changed to eliminate nationality-based quotas. Banning immigration is effectively a quota of zero. Here's a university site with information on the law. You can also find ample information on Wikipedia.

http://library.uwb.edu/Static/USimmigra ... y_act.html

"No person shall receive any preference or priority or be discriminated against in the issuance of an immigrant visa because of his race, sex, nationality, place of birth, or place of residence except as specifically provided in section 101... etc..."

And in reading the applicable sections for exceptions, I don't see anything that allows the kind of wholesale immigration ban Trump signed. The president is also bound by federal law and cannot contravene it by fiat.

I trust journalists for reputable institutions like the NY Times quite a bit. Certainly more than the shit show that is the administration in the White House right now. I mean, if you look at the facts, the White House has been on the losing side from long before day one.

And unlike you, I am capable of finding and reading primary sources.
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Re: World is Falling Apart Thread (Be nice;stop changing tit

Post by Ack »

jp1 wrote:I also don't believe in the death penalty because it is hypocritical and barbaric. Who should ultimately be the judge of who lives and who dies? If you are a right wing conservative because of Christianity, there is only one correct answer here. If you aren't a Christian there are no correct answers for that question.
I am not a conservative Christian, though I do support the use of the death penalty, albeit in extreme circumstances. It is my opinion that the death penalty should be viewed not as a tool for punishment but one of societal protection, reserved for only the worst offenders who commit the most heinous of crimes and lack the ability to show empathy or remorse. Serial murderers, serial rapists, mass murderers, etc., who show extreme levels of psychopathy are the types of people whom I think the death penalty should be reserved for, but only in conjunction with both the court's approval and with the consent of qualified psychiatrists and psychologists.

I'm also in favor of removing three strikes laws, because the evidence doesn't appear to support their working, and I think non-violent drug offenders should be offered treatment options instead of prison sentences, both as a means to help them recover and contribute economically to our society and to lower the costs associated with our justice and penal systems.
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Re: World is Falling Apart Thread (Be nice;stop changing tit

Post by SpaceBooger »

To me it's more important to have a judicial system that follows through with it's sentences. I am tired of people who commit crimes and nothing happening because of lack of space and resources. If you can not follow through with sentences they can not help those in need or those who have crimes committed against them and most importantly encourage people to follow the law.

As to the pro-life or choice issue. I wish, again just wishing, that the government would instead of fighting the fight they are, they focus on weather or not gov monies are spent on abortions. I think that is problem more than pro-live vs pro-choice. If the government funds, or does not fund, should be the first issue the government focuses on. Once that is decided they then can work with knowledgeable people to find out what limits can be created within the law related to that.

These are just my opinions and my takes after reading and being these debates. I am a teacher, my wife was teacher in the DC area, and we have four kids and go to our catholic church every Sunday. I have seen all sides of these arguments both the positive and negative and realize you can not get to black and white without traversing the through the gray.
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Re: World is Falling Apart Thread (Be nice;stop changing tit

Post by TSTR »

KILL EM ALL, LET THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER SORT EM OUT
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Re: World is Falling Apart Thread (Be nice;stop changing tit

Post by jp1 »

Ack wrote:
jp1 wrote:I also don't believe in the death penalty because it is hypocritical and barbaric. Who should ultimately be the judge of who lives and who dies? If you are a right wing conservative because of Christianity, there is only one correct answer here. If you aren't a Christian there are no correct answers for that question.
I am not a conservative Christian, though I do support the use of the death penalty, albeit in extreme circumstances. It is my opinion that the death penalty should be viewed not as a tool for punishment but one of societal protection, reserved for only the worst offenders who commit the most heinous of crimes and lack the ability to show empathy or remorse. Serial murderers, serial rapists, mass murderers, etc., who show extreme levels of psychopathy are the types of people whom I think the death penalty should be reserved for, but only in conjunction with both the court's approval and with the consent of qualified psychiatrists and psychologists.

I'm also in favor of removing three strikes laws, because the evidence doesn't appear to support their working, and I think non-violent drug offenders should be offered treatment options instead of prison sentences, both as a means to help them recover and contribute economically to our society and to lower the costs associated with our justice and penal systems.
I'm afraid that I have a hard time seeing it as anything but revenge. You don't teach a child that violence is wrong by beating them. There are so many alternatives to ending the life of another person as "justice". For instance, prisons routinely implement work programs that are quite lucrative. A death row inmate might be required to work in a program which earns enough to sustain themselves and provide a contribution to the society they have harmed. Not all of these work programs are designed to put inmates in contact with the community, they could be providing cheap or even free labor as a means to sustain the prison, which in return provides jobs for the community. This is only one scenario that is plausible, there are countless other ways to keep society safe without killing someone, and without putting a strain on our wallet. The problem is that the human imagination is much more productive when it comes to destructive measures, and we are hardly impartial when it comes to convicts who have committed serious crimes.

How many innocent men do you believe have been sent to death? With the rising number of people who were convicted and sentenced to death before DNA evidence was available being proven innocent and receiving a pardon, what time frame would you propose is plausible to kill a man or woman with confidence that no mistakes have been made in their conviction?

The backlog of cases along with the small number of people who are willing to reconsider them leaves people waiting years for even a first chance at a new trial with newly available evidence. Many times if a detective intuits that a suspect is guilty, they will have tunnel vision and not even examine other possibilities, especially when presented with circumstantial evidence that supports their narrative. It's bad enough that innocent men go to prison, even worse that they may never get a chance to clear their name.

On a personal note, being a Christian, I don't believe in murder in any circumstance. Non-lethal measures are rarely explored because they aren't demonstrative of power and authority in the same way a bullet or a missile are. I find this to be the fault of a lazy mind, with little care for becoming a more enlightened society. We are still barbarians, we just pretend that we aren't.

I'm torn on self defense issues, because it is a gray area for me, the preservation of life is an instinct as much as a choice and one probably shouldn't be held accountable for something they can not help. Further, if my children or my wife were faced with grave danger, I am certain that my Christian beliefs on the matter would take a back seat. Sadly, for me, that means eternal damnation, yet I still couldn't watch as my family was attacked. I realize there is some hypocrisy in that as well, but I am a flawed man. With that said, I definitely empathize with the families of victims, and their plight is not lost on me at all. It's a tough choice to make, and one I hope to never be faced with. Ideals are simple in a vacuum. The intricacies of emotion are the difficult part, I'd like to think I'd have the strength to follow my convictions...in the moment, I can't say for sure.

On all the other matters, such as non-violent drug offenders and three strikes I agree completely.
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jp1
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Re: World is Falling Apart Thread (Be nice;stop changing tit

Post by jp1 »

SpaceBooger wrote:To me it's more important to have a judicial system that follows through with it's sentences. I am tired of people who commit crimes and nothing happening because of lack of space and resources. If you can not follow through with sentences they can not help those in need or those who have crimes committed against them and most importantly encourage people to follow the law.

As to the pro-life or choice issue. I wish, again just wishing, that the government would instead of fighting the fight they are, they focus on weather or not gov monies are spent on abortions. I think that is problem more than pro-live vs pro-choice. If the government funds, or does not fund, should be the first issue the government focuses on. Once that is decided they then can work with knowledgeable people to find out what limits can be created within the law related to that.

These are just my opinions and my takes after reading and being these debates. I am a teacher, my wife was teacher in the DC area, and we have four kids and go to our catholic church every Sunday. I have seen all sides of these arguments both the positive and negative and realize you can not get to black and white without traversing the through the gray.
Some good points. I don't think government funding should be available for abortions unless certain circumstances are met. That is certainly a different issue than the discussion of banning them altogether.

I don't believe the government should provide marijuana to people free of charge either, unless they have a real health condition that would benefit from such treatment. However, I believe it should be an individual choice to use it or not.

Republicans are supposed to favor "small government" but that only happens when the cuts come to social programs as far as I can tell, sanctions against all the "evils" of society and funding for violent and punitive measures are never under question. Why is that? It's a complex issue no doubt, but in the end it always comes down to one type of government vs another, rather than the size of said institution. I'm for a government that favors the betterment of society through compassion and understanding. Trying to solve many of these issues at the core of the problem (Like many of Ack's suggestions) is a great start. That is a right wing I can understand and compromise with.
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Re: World is Falling Apart Thread (Be nice;stop changing tit

Post by MrPopo »

jp1 wrote:I'm torn on self defense issues, because it is a gray area for me, the preservation of life is an instinct as much as a choice and one probably shouldn't be held accountable for something they can not help. Further, if my children or my wife were faced with grave danger, I am certain that my Christian beliefs on the matter would take a back seat. Sadly, for me, that means eternal damnation, yet I still couldn't watch as my family was attacked. I realize there is some hypocrisy in that as well, but I am a flawed man. With that said, I definitely empathize with the families of victims, and their plight is not lost on me at all. It's a tough choice to make, and one I hope to never be faced with. Ideals are simple in a vacuum. The intricacies of emotion are the difficult part, I'd like to think I'd have the strength to follow my convictions...in the moment, I can't say for sure.
Interestingly, Judaism is actually quite clear on the notion of self defense or the defense of others; you are obligated to do so, even if it requires you to take the life of the attacker. If you're interested you can read more about it here, but a quick summary are the three things you cannot do to save your own life are to murder someone (which is distinct from killing; basically that you take an innocent life), engage in idolatry, or engage in sexual misconduct as defined in the Torah (adultery, incest, beastiality). In all other cases you not only can break one of the 613 commandments, you MUST.
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Re: World is Falling Apart Thread (Be nice;stop changing tit

Post by marurun »

And the ACLU has sued the Trump administration over the refugee and immigration ban. This is getting interesting quickly. Looks like I need to give them some of my money.
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Re: World is Falling Apart Thread (Be nice;stop changing tit

Post by Blu »

Notably, UAE, Egypt, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia are missing from the list. And last I looked, Saudi wasn't bringing in refugees, and the Wahabists in Saudi Arabia have their own issues of creating instability in the region, especially in Yemen.


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