World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[CRTGAMER]

Thanks for the nice comments. The Republican and Democrat Parties really dominate with the initial Primary candidates nominated to run by a small group of mostly Politicians. Plus, with the Electors pledged to just the two parties, this wipes out any Independent of ever becoming President. The public has no control on selection of eligible quality people in the Primaries to run for President; we are stuck voting what the parties already decided for us.

Monday December 19, 2016 - Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton or John Kasich?
It will be interesting in 3 days what the Electors decide and how many sway from their pledged parties.

Trump on again tonight in Florida 7pm 830pm Eastern Time, entire speech live on Fox news.

Oh the Time Magazine "Person Of Year" is out, picked my copy up at Barnes Noble. Not a "Popularity" Vote, but the Newsweek staff only Vote (play of Electoral) of the biggest news maker of the year. Interesting articles to read inside.



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EDIT - Corrupt vs Corrupt Checkmate?
Fox news Channel Tucker Carlson on right now grilling a DEMOCRAT Elector who is empathetic to not follow his Democrat pledge to cast his vote for Clinton. I have to hand it to Carlson, though traditionally a Republican TV News station, he confronted the Elector should follow his Democrat Party Pledge. Based on the interview, I suspect even Democrat Electors are pooling with Republican Electors to submit John Kasich. Not going to happen since the Republican Congress will have the final say for all the "Faithless" Electors changing their pledges. Then again, John Kasich is also Republican.

Where is JT? Tucker Calson interviewing Washington State Democrat Elector Bret Chiafalo:
http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/12/16/t ... t-chiafalo

The earlier grilling of Republican and Democrat Electors by Tucker Carlson:
http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p1072753



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EDIT 2 - Hollywood Actors Decide President?
Okay the Grilling done on the Democrat Elector, now flipping the burger and grilling Mike Farrell (Mash Actor) on the Hollywood Campaign Ad concerning Electors. The actors also hinting to choose John Kasich against the will of the voters!

Mike Farrell Interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khDv9G8uc4g

Carlson: "Why do you think Electors are more qualified over the will of the voters? Who are these people, what makes them more wise to decide? Do you know anything about who the Electors are?"

Farrell: "Trump is not qualified to be President, the reason for the TV Ad. I only know about the Electors who will not vote for Trump. I would rather have a President that the House of Representatives or Electoral College voted for."

[Blu]

Salvador Allende is relevant right now.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/16/op ... -felt.html

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[MrPopo]

If a sufficient number of electors vote Kasich then Congress doesn't get involved. They only get involved if no one gets a majority. Additionally, I suspect the current congress would prefer Kasich to Trump because he's a much more predictable entity.

[marurun]

There is a bitter little part of me that says Trump is the best pick right now because his impending implosion will sully the entire Republican Party, even as he feuds with them. The impeachment and corruption of Trump will be a spectacle that may well destroy the Republican Party as we know it and has the potential to push the Democrats to power while the GOP tries to recover and reinvent itself.

I know, wishful thinking. But NC and KS are rather strong proof of how closed, corrupt, and anti-citizen total Republican control can be.

[CRTGAMER]

President Trump - 304 Electoral College Votes Monday 12-19-2016

With dispute of the Popular Vote and SEVEN Electors ignoring the voters, will the Electoral College survive?

Most Electors stayed with their Pledges following the ballots of voters they represent. However, SEVEN Electors were Faithless choosing candidates other then Clinton or Trump; five of which chose people not even on the primary ballots! The voters the Electors represented were ignored. An additional FOUR Electors attempted to cast their votes for someone else; three were replaced by alternates and one changed decision as required by the laws of their states.

306 Republican Electors pledged Trump - 304 voted for Trump
232 Democrat Electors pledged Clinton - 227 voted for Clinton

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2016/12/20 ... -electors/

The Electoral College gathered on Monday to officially elect Donald Trump president. As predicted, Trump easily surpassed the 270 votes needed to win the presidency. Amidst all the protesting and campaigning from the left encouraging members to be “faithless electors,” there were several electors who opted to vote for a candidate who did not win their state. But many of them were Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton’s electors.

1. Republican Texas Elector Bill Greene - Voted for Ron Paul
2. Republican Texas Elector Chris Suprun - Voted for John Kasich
3. Democrat Hawaii Elector David Mulinix - Voted Bernie Sanders
4. Democrat Washington Elector Esther John - Voted for Colin L. Powell
5. Democrat Washington Elector Levi Guerra - Voted for Colin L. Powell
6. Democrat Washington Elector Bret Chiafalo - Voted for Colin L. Powell
7. Democrat Washington Elector Robert Satiacum - Voted for Faith Spotted Eagle

1. Democrat Maine Elector David Bright - Attempted Sanders - Changed vote to Clinton
2. Democrat Minnesota Muhammad Abdurrahman - Attempted Sanders - Replaced Alternate voted Clinton
3. Republican Texas Elector Art Sisneros - Resigned - Replaced Alternate voted Trump
4. Republican Colorado Micheal Baca - Attempted Kasich - Replaced Alternate voted Trump

Colorado public officers charged with failing to fulfill their duty, a misdemeanor, can receive up to a $1,000 fine and one year in jail.

Hawaii law dictates how electors should cast their votes, but no punishment if they don't.

In Minnesota and Michigan, the elector must vote as pledged or will be replaced by an alternate.

In Texas, there are no laws governing electors. Texas Governor Greg Abbott (R) announced Monday that a bill had already been filed in Texas to make the electors’ commitments binding.

Washington state rules indicate that faithless electors will be fined $1,000.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_elector

Faithless Electors Legal Position
Twenty-one states do not have laws compelling their electors to vote for a pledged candidate. Twenty-nine states plus the District of Columbia have laws to penalize faithless electors, although these have never been enforced. In lieu of penalizing a faithless elector, some states, such as Michigan and Minnesota, specify the faithless elector's vote is void. Minnesota invoked this law for the first time in 2016 when an elector pledged to Hillary Clinton attempted to vote for Bernie Sanders instead. After an elector has voted, their vote can be changed only in states such as Michigan and Minnesota, which invalidate votes other than those pledged. In the twenty-nine states with laws against faithless electors, a faithless elector may only be punished after they vote.

* 29 states have laws to penalize faithless electors

Seven Electors ignored the will of the voters they represented. Had the election been close, this would have caused an upheaval with battles in Congress. Fortunately, more states have made the pledges mandatory with Texas recently submitting a bill, though the best solution would be to abolish the Electoral College.

Should there have been the same distance requirement for Electoral College as the Polls?
The Electors had to walk thru protesters as they meetup at the State Capitals. At all polls for any election there is a restriction on the distance campaigners or protesters can stand. It is against the law for the groups to stand by the entrances of any voting facility during election day, the purpose so voters will not be harassed. The same should apply for the Electoral College; the Electors should not have any outside influences attempting to sway the process on the "Second Election Day".



"Relative" Related Corruption
Trump has his adult children sitting in on some of the briefings, which approaches the grey legalities and ethical or not. Just as the Kennedy relatives have done in the past, but should family relatives not chosen for office be allowed to sit in and advise?

Who are these people, what makes the 538 Electors wiser then the millions of voters?
House Speaker Pelosi's daughter is one of the Democrat Electors in California. Take a wild guess which party she is pledged to. Former President Bill Clinton is a New York Democrat Elector, with his wife running for President! In Michigan out of just 16 Electors, there is a Father Daughter Republican Elector Team taking up two of the limited slots. Really!? Where is across the board representation of "We The People" when a daughter of a State Representative, a spouse of a Presidential Candidate and two Electors are immediate family members!

The Electoral College is an antiquated system that really needs abolished, shredded, burned and forgotten in the dumpster. A group of electors deciding their very own separate Candidate certainly has gone off the deep end.

The Dartboard Name List of Electors in each state representing the Electoral College.
http://heavy.com/news/2016/11/electoral ... -faithles/

Here is the Electoral College link with the Elector votes and official Document PDFs.
https://www.archives.gov/federal-regist ... nment.html

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Electoral College Key Dates for the Presidency

Monday December 19, 2016 - Read the "Hold the Meeting of Electors" instructions.
What: Meeting of Electors to Vote.
Who: Electors of each State, Governor of each State, and Secretaries of State.

December 28, 2016 - Read the "Certificate of Vote" instructions for details to send the documents.
What: Prepare and distribute the Certificate of Vote.
Who: Electors of each State, Governor of each State, and Secretaries of State.

January 6, 2017 - Read the "Hold the Meeting of Electors" instructions.
What: Count the electoral votes.
Who: Congress.

[MrPopo]

There is a bitter little part of me that says Trump is the best pick right now because his impending implosion will sully the entire Republican Party, even as he feuds with them. The impeachment and corruption of Trump will be a spectacle that may well destroy the Republican Party as we know it and has the potential to push the Democrats to power while the GOP tries to recover and reinvent itself.

I know, wishful thinking. But NC and KS are rather strong proof of how closed, corrupt, and anti-citizen total Republican control can be.

The problem I see is that Pence with a full Republican congress terrifies me more than Trump. Trump at least has the potential to occasionally do non-terrible things. And Kasich seems like he actually is a decent human being.

[CRTGAMER]

The problem I see is that Pence with a full Republican congress terrifies me more than Trump. Trump at least has the potential to occasionally do non-terrible things. And Kasich seems like he actually is a decent human being.

Electoral College Decision - Monday Dec 19, 2016
The FBI has joined the CIA and agreed the Russians have posted hacked information. I'm curious about what exactly was hacked which seems to be mainly focused on copies of Clinton's Emails that she deleted on her private server. Though the hack exposing the Emails are devious, a service to bring that information to light. Bottom line is the vote machines were not hacked which is the perception from the News Media, just the spread of information that could be false or true.

http://thefederalist.com/2016/12/16/ive ... e-on-both/

I’ve Worked With The Electoral College And The CIA. Here’s My Take On Both
Ten—count ‘em, 10—of the 538 electors in the Electoral College wrote an open letter to the director of National Intelligence, directing him to brief all electors days before they meet in their respective state capitals to certify the election of Donald J. Trump. Just one of the signatories is a Republican. The other nine are Democrat electors, including Nancy Pelosi’s daughter. (At least 46 more Democrat electors are reported to have signed on.)

The dream of this “Pelosi Ten” is, of course, to de-legitimize and possibly derail the results of the November 8 presidential election, from which Trump received 306 electoral votes. They asked for this briefing so that the body could be “informed” before they each vote their consciences—all 538 of them—never mind the millions they were entrusted to represent. Of course, this is also about building a case for abolishing the Electoral College down the road.

The Electoral College Isn’t Meant To Prevent Someone From Taking Office
As both a former candidate for elector and a former CIA analyst myself, let me say two things about all this:

1. The Electoral College is simply not equipped to act as a deliberative body. Voters voted for electors, who were entrusted to vote for the voters’ choices—not for completely unknown people who would get into a debate about it all and then vote for whomever. That’s why voters’ ballots at their polling places were marked “Electors FOR [candidates’ names.]”

2. The CIA has long been highly susceptible to politicization. I suspect it is especially so after eight years of an administration that politicized every department and agency it touched.

The underlying pipe dream of the “Pelosi Ten” is that the Electoral College was set up to prevent “someone like Trump” from taking office. Why, pray tell, wasn’t it also devised to prevent “someone like Hillary Clinton” from taking office? Or Richard Nixon?

If electors are to certify anything, it is that Americans went through the due process of electing their president. Whether any foreign actors tried to influence the election—which they have in the past—is irrelevant to the process of voting. Neither is the question of whether an elector personally believes the winner is fit to serve.

Whether such hacking occurred —and whether the intent of such hacking (assuming the Wikileaks information was due to hacking rather than being an inside leak by disgruntled Bernie Sanders supporters) was to elect Trump—is not only unknown, but beside the point. More likely the intent would be to undermine the U.S. electoral process, an intent which seems to be getting the full cooperation of the Pelosi Ten.

The Electoral College Is Not a Deliberative Body
Let me tell you a little story. I was a delegate to a Maryland Republican Party Convention in 2008. It was near the end of the session and the hotel ballroom had thinned out a bit, but there was a still some unfinished business. “Now we have to select the members of the Electoral College,” the State GOP chairman announced.

The chairman directed delegates to meet in various corners of the ballroom according to their congressional district. Once gathered, we chose someone from our district to represent the GOP nominee, should he win the state. There were maybe 15 of us gathered from District Eight. And it was a veritable “Oh, pick me, pick me!” kind of thing when we surveyed who was interested. Then all went back to their seats, and we voted collectively for the electors who would represent the state’s senate seats: two. One of them was the State GOP’s longtime hardworking office secretary. The whole process lasted maybe 20 minutes, tops.

Electoral College under intense scrutiny and could jeopardize their survival
The Quote above shows how little the checks and balances in the selection of the 538 Electors which have the power and huge responsibility in deciding the President. Though the Electors should be free to research and decide, there are many strong influences affecting them from reaching a fair unbiased decision. The hate mails, pressure from political parties and the News Media. Should the Electors join and agree on the "coup of John K"; it could mean the end of the Electoral College. The amendment gates will open wide with more states (now at Eleven States with 165 Electoral Votes) providing their each standby amendments to the Constitution.

If Kasich is elected instead of Trump, he does seem level headed just as Pence. However, I think we will have the same cycle of political process the past decades with no real change. I voted twice for Obama for change that did not quite happen and now voted for Trump for change. With Pence moderating Trump's huge changes, it could be good or bad for the country. At least SOMEONE has stepped up the plate with real indications to finally make changes.

[marurun]

There was NEVER any implication in the major media outlets that the Russians hacked voting machines. The Russians sought to influence the electorate by hacking and selectively releasing information and disinformation to sway public opinion in the US. And every major news story I have heard, seen, or read has presented it as such.

You may have thought you were voting for change, but all of Trumps nominations speak of conflict of interest, self-enrichment, corruption, favoritism, and putting the interests of the rich and corporations above the needs of the people. The swamp has been made swampier.

[Blu]

Yeah, CRT. Why do you think I mentioned Salvador Allende. For shits and grins? CIA pulled a misinformation campaign against Chile's socialist president (it failed). That instance is no different than what the Russians sought to do.

Meanwhile, incoming SOS is a piece of work:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016 ... il-company


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[MrPopo]

You may have thought you were voting for change, but all of Trumps nominations speak of conflict of interest, self-enrichment, corruption, favoritism, and putting the interests of the rich and corporations above the needs of the people. The swamp has been made swampier.

There is no change in politics. Not in the long term, anyway. Sure, you can have some sort of true revolution that temporarily upsets the applecart, but inevitably those who seek power will rise to it and solidify their base. We've seen this cycle time and time again through history, yet we persist in thinking that "this time will be different." Maybe next election cycle we should be blaring Won't Get Fooled Again at all times as people go into the voting booth; at least The Who understand how things work.