World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[ElkinFencer10]

I absolutely encourage free thinking in my classroom. The purpose of education is to teach students how to think, not what to think. I am there to show them how to look at both sides of an argument and evaluate the facts and the reliability of the sources they get "facts" from, not to indoctrinate them into either my left wing ideology or the state's right wing ideology.

[foxhound1022]

I agree with Blu. I shudder to think what would happen if the constitution was open to any changes given our current panel of people in government.

[Gunstar Green]

I absolutely encourage free thinking in my classroom. The purpose of education is to teach students how to think, not what to think. I am there to show them how to look at both sides of an argument and evaluate the facts and the reliability of the sources they get "facts" from, not to indoctrinate them into either my left wing ideology or the state's right wing ideology.

Thumbs up.

My history teacher in high school tried his best to turn us all into libertarians. He was kind of crazy.

Weird things happen in small rural public schools.

[marurun]

The Constitution is always open to change, at any time. The ability to amend the Constitution is built-in. It is a feature, not a bug. It is also a difficult process.

[marurun]

The CIA's assessment is that Russia wasn't only trying to cast doubt on the US election, but to try to throw the election to Trump. Wikileaks was a pawn in this project. Sadly, fear of appearing partisan (and partisanship from the congressional group of 12 with which this intel was shared) muted critical government response to this event.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... 8f0cb33ad1

[CRTGAMER]

C-Span Elevator Cam Trump Tower
Love Donald Trump's openness, no Press Conferences needed. The Trump Tower has a 24 hour CSpan feed in the lobby showing everyone walking in, nothing is hidden. Once in a while, someone is spotted for Cabinet consideration and Political discussion; the world sees everything Trump is doing. Funny how the Media rely on Trump's Twitter account for information and then add their own biased opinions. Anyone can read Trump's Daily Announcements and Messages as soon as posted to come to your own conclusions.

Trump is seventy years old and creating a legacy to be remembered in history. Though appearing at times as self promoting, the changes could be great for America. Quoting Trump, "Its About Time".



https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/_landin ... actv02.pdf

Website - https://www.donaldjtrump.com/contract/

If the Electoral College is opened up for conversation via a Second Constitutional Convention from the states, that also means everything else that's in the document is up for conversation. Watch the poopstorm that would ensue as anything that poses the slightest bit of contention is raised as an issue or amendments. Gun rights? It'll come up. Abortion? Yep. Lying Press? Sure, it could be an issue. Creationism in our schools? You better believe it.

It only takes 2/3rds of the states to get what you want and call in a Constitutional Convention, or 2/3rd's vote in the House and Senate. Funny, there's almost enough states that have thought about the issue. Additionally, I would be concerned with the amount of big money influencing our politics that a Constitutional Convention would be disastrous.

People don't realize that's whats up for grabs if you don't introduce an amendment via Congress, and why that's the proposed way of addressing concerns in our constitution.

The Constitution is always open to change, at any time. The ability to amend the Constitution is built-in. It is a feature, not a bug. It is also a difficult process.

Previous page link - 11 states already approved amendment bills to abolish Electoral College
Agree, the Constitution already has so many amendments to it reflecting change over the decades. Some good and some bad depending on how one perceives each amendment. The argument "opening the doors" is moot when there are already so many changes.

For any proposed new amendment or bill, tacking on an additional required amendment to it should never be allowed. Too many times Congress has sneaked in a less palatable side bill in with another bait bill that could easily pass on its own. Sometimes the sensible bill passes with the crappy bill and sometimes not. In the case below the bait Republicans slipped in to the Democrats are reversed.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/12/07/con ... og-mattis/

Congressional Republicans Put Dems in Bind over ‘Mad Dog’ Mattis
Congressional Republicans put Democrats on Capitol Hill in a tough spot late Tuesday, slipping language that would severely limit debate on President-elect Donald Trump’s pick for defense secretary into a critical spending bill. The measure would limit the amount of time Congress can debate issuing a waiver so that retired Marine Gen. James Mattis, who left the Corps three years ago, can serve as civilian head of the Pentagon. The bill, which would keep the government funded, thus dodging a Friday deadline to shut down federal agencies, is a must-pass measure that has been largely uncontroversial. It would fund government operations through March, when the Trump administration would then be able to influence spending.

The CIA's assessment is that Russia wasn't only trying to cast doubt on the US election, but to try to throw the election to Trump. Wikileaks was a pawn in this project. Sadly, fear of appearing partisan (and partisanship from the congressional group of 12 with which this intel was shared) muted critical government response to this event.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... 8f0cb33ad1

The accusations of Russia throwing the election thru Wikileaks could be true or not, reading the entire biased article (to sell a story) there still is no actual Proof! Wikileaks falls in with all the other Fake News sites, just what is true? Media coverage with its bias of true or false news do influence people just as Campaign Ads. All media including what are accepted as legitimate news should always be taken in with a doubted belief.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli ... /95329212/

On what points of the new Russian assessment do the CIA and other intelligence authorities differ with the FBI?
The FBI does not dispute that the CIA's assessment could be accurate, said a U.S. official with knowledge of the matter. The difference lies in the institutional standards the agencies require in reaching such conclusions. While the CIA develops assessments based on a broad interpretation of available data, the FBI, as a law enforcement agency, requires a standard of proof that could sustain a possible criminal prosecution.

Is there suspicion that Russian hackers may have tampered with votes?
No. Federal officials, including Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson and FBI Director James Comey, have said that the decentralized nature of voting systems across the U.S. poses a difficult target for hackers.

Actual Vote Systems were NOT tampered, just the concerns of source information presented to the public through the media. The Media itself hyped up "Russian Tampering" putting the fake scare tactic that actual completed vote counts were compromised! When you think about it, all Media including these posts are opinions and many times trying to sway others. Where do you draw the line as which are breaking the law or not? A foreign government posting on sites to influence the election certainly is wrong and should be investigated. Just how to prosecute is tricky due to free speech and enforcement always seems to get neglected.

[CRTGAMER]

Recount Over - Trump still the lead in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin
What a waste. Guess how much money the Green Party Candidate "stole" from the idiots that donated. At only 1.06% of the popular vote, Stein stepped in the legal grey area of even allowed challenging the vote. No clarity of the millions left over, very doubtful the money will be returned to the fools that donated to the Stein Crowdfunding site. Trump gained 131 votes in Wisconsin; Stein gambled the hand recount mistakes would throw the numbers towards Clinton. The money trail should be investigated, taxed as income and prosecuted when found not used as the donators were misled.

Green Party Recount Donations - 6.4 MILLION DOLLARS

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/12/politics/ ... ill-stein/

Wisconsin, Pennsylvania certify Trump wins, ends Stein's recount push
Green Party candidate Jill Stein's push for recounts appears to have reached its end. Wisconsin's recount was finalized Monday, and the state Elections Commission said it would certify Donald Trump as the winner there. Pennsylvania, meanwhile, said it certified Trump as its winner hours after a federal judge blocked Stein's push for a recount, saying her suspicion of hacking "borders on the irrational." US District Judge Paul Diamond wrote in a 31-page decision that there are "at least six separate grounds" requiring him to deny Stein's request for a by-hand count of Pennsylvania's paper ballots.

A federal judge shut down Stein's push for a Michigan recount last week. In Pennsylvania, Trump's margin of victory was 44,000 over Clinton. Stein was not competitive in any state. Diamond said granting Stein's request for a recount would make it impossible for Pennsylvania to certify its presidential electors by the federally mandated deadline of December 13, "thus inexcusably disenfranchising some six million Pennsylvania voters" by blocking the state's participation in the Electoral College.

Now to see how honest the Electoral College will be in just under a week. Just how much "impartiality" will be allowed to influence the electors at the end of the Nations voters cutoff line?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/12 ... efing.html

Clinton campaign backs call for electors to get Trump-Russia intel briefing
Just over a month after he called claims of a “rigged” election “delusional,” Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign chairman on Monday backed calls for a group of renegade electors to receive an intelligence briefing on alleged political interference by Russia – days before the Electoral College is set to vote.

The CIA and FBI have produced somewhat dueling narratives; the CIA reportedly told Congress that Russia no doubt tried to exert influence to help Trump win, while the FBI was not ready to reach the same conclusion. Podesta and the electors have seized on the CIA's findings.

The Electoral College is set to vote Dec. 19 in a typically routine exercise where electors essentially rubber stamp the results of the general election. But a group of 10 electors, in an open letter Monday to Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, requested a briefing on Trump-Russia connections. These electors have argued they shouldn't be bound to the Nov. 8 result, and in their letter cited their role as a "deliberative body" designed in part to prevent foreign powers from trying to “influence the election.”

Both Democrat and Republican Electors are Pledged to their party which itself seems undemocratic. They can decide without any accountability who will be President; even a completely different person not on the ballot!

[Blu]

Funny how your attention is shifting to how the recounts failed, but doesn't acknowledge how Russian influence could have swayed voting opinion. When there's a consensus with our intelligence agencies that psychological warfare was conducted via Russia, but yet Trump is convinced it didn't happen. Mind you, he's also not going to intelligence briefings, something he was critical of Obama over. It should ring warning bells in your head that both the RNC and the DNC were hacked, but that the RNC never had its skeletons let out. It'll only be a little while before it's used as leverage.

Furthermore, virtually all of his Cabinet picks have been counter-intuitive to the office that they're supposed to head. A climate change denier on the EPA, Sec of State is Exxon CEO (the irony there is remarkable, welcome to the Corporate States of America), Rick Perry wanted to do away with the Dept of Energy, now is Secretary of Energy. A minimum wage critic on the Dept of Labor. A charter school, creationist who has never taught, is head of Dept of Education. They'll all be laughing on the way to the bank.

The 24 Hour C-Span (he's currently meeting with Kanye) and Twitter has you hooked CRT, he can control the narrative. It's no different than any type of dictatorship that controls the press and messaging. He's got you right where he wants you. Twitter is 140 characters and doesn't allowed for nuanced discussion, so he can continue to be vague and make sweeping statements. It should be alarming he hasn't held a press conference since July. That includes the one he just canceled where he was going to talk about his conflicts of interests.

Lastly, the recounts in Michigan are debatable due to broken equipment, and lots of legal pressure. Did you know that here in our lovely state, if the ballot counts and polls don't match (even one vote difference), then a recount can't be performed and the vote stands. That's the actual law in Michigan. There are hundreds of precincts where this happened.
(http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/m ... /95142214/) It defies all logic. From all of this, I wish an audit would be routine, that it would be from an independent agency, and that it would be funded. This needs to become part of the practice, not when the circumstances merit. It should be a given.

As far as some constructive feedback: We don't need your summary of the articles you linked, and they don't need to be in quotes. It's all Spammy McSpamspam in this thread when that happens.

[marurun]

The recount was not a scam. And here's what frustrates me. We have laws governing recounts, and every time we attempt recounts at a presidential level they get shut down. So what's the point of having laws allowing for recounts if we can't actually leverage them to analyze the election process? Stein indicated quite clearly she wasn't trying to get a change in the results, but was instead trying to get a better look at how the elections in those states proceeded to make sure they were appropriate, proper, legitimate. And this process has revealed that in Michigan the process is not appropriate. If there is any miscount between the voter rolls and ballots recounts must be halted for those districts. This is unlike in any other state. Those mismatches are quite common. Someone may check in on the voter roll and then end up not completing their ballot because of confusion or technical difficulty. Michigan's inability to square this with a recount process is mystifying.

What we are finding, essentially, is that while our election process is probably mostly reliable, we lack the ability and processes to review our election processes meaningfully to verify the degree of reliability. We cannot seem to manage state-wide recounts and we cannot ensure fair and equitable polling station and ballot access to all eligible citizens. For a supposedly modern democratic nation, this is highly suspect.

Between Russian manipulation of public perception and hacking of candidates and parties, public frustration with the economy, the public's inability to connect frustration with the economy with meaningful change, and an election process which is proving resistant to hacking and fraud, but also independent verification, the stage is set for a massive bout of change. I imagine many of Trump's supporters who bought into the idea of "draining the swamp" are now questioning why Trump has tapped so many oligarchs to fill positions in his cabinet. At least, I hope they are questioning. If they aren't, that reveals they weren't really all that interested in reducing corruption, and that that claim was a red herring and cover for some other motivation.

[ElkinFencer10]

Claiming that a recount is a scam is - in my view - more damaging to the integrity of democratic representation than any Russian hacking. Am I going to tell my students that they're just trying to cheat their way to better grades when they ask me to double check a test I graded to make sure I didn't make a mistake? Of course not; I'm going to look at it and make sure I didn't make a mistake.