World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

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CRTGAMER
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by CRTGAMER »

Blu wrote:That said, I'd take Kasich gladly. I'd love for Hillary to come out, and say, I unbound all of my electors, and see where that goes.

And it should be no surprise that elite control this country, and other countries around the world. For that, I say, welcome to the peasantry. Time to respect our feudal lords, who know what's best for us.
:shock:

Er no, this is not a dictatorship and the few electors raising the stink will not change who will be president. I know all about the reasons pro and against Electoral College "protect the people who made a poor decision" and still think it is so important to question the validity today. Look at the Electoral College power not just because Trump will be President, but the corruption that Electors can pool together and decide their own candidate not even on the election ticket!
Last edited by CRTGAMER on Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by ElkinFencer10 »

Blu is correct. I rarely pop in on this thread, but as a history teacher, I cannot simply ignore a blatant misunderstanding of the electoral college. My post here is not about politics or right vs left; it's about historical fact.

Let me start by saying that I fervently oppose the existence of the electoral college. With that said, however, as Blu stated, the electoral college was designed by the framers - Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, and James Madison being among its strongest supporters, especially Hamilton - to protect the country from the "tyranny of the majority," to use a phrase used multiple times throughout the Federalist Papers. Its purpose is to prevent a demagogue from taking power. Its envisioned purpose was to prevent a demagogue who won the popular vote from automatically taking power - a check on the often emotionally charged rather than rationally charged whims of the people, if you will - but at the end of the day, preventing demagoguery from taking the White House in general is its purpose.

I'm not here to say whether or not Trump is the dangerous demagogue that Hamilton tried to prevent with the electoral college, but to say that the electoral college is corrupt if they elect Secretary Clinton instead of Mr. Trump is factually wrong. The fact of the matter is that neither you nor I nor anyone on this forum have ever once voted for president; we have voted in what is essentially an opinion poll to advise our chosen electors how we want them to vote. It is the 538 electors, not the roughly 240 million American voters, who choose the President of the United States. That is how it was intended to be. That is not corruption. If anything, having the "winner" of the state votes automatically become president would be the corruption as it runs contrary to the electoral system established by our Constitution. Take note of the definition of actual corruption:
the process by which something, typically a word or expression, is changed from its original use or meaning to one that is regarded as erroneous or debased.


Here's the alternate definition before it in inevitably brought up:
dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power, typically involving bribery.
On December 19th, the electors will choose the 45th president as is prescribed by the Constitution. If they choose Secretary Clinton, it will not be corruption. The system will be working exactly as intended, and unless there is proof of some sort of bribe - and remember that burden of proof falls on those who accuse of wrongdoing, not those being accused - there will be nothing dishonest or fraudulent about it. The only ones crying fraud will be those ignorant of the Constitution, a situation I am attempting to remedy. Ignorance is merely the lack of knowledge or understanding, not some character flaw to be ashamed of. We are not nor have we ever been a democracy. If you take note of the wording of the pledge of allegiance as well as Article IV Section 4 of the Constitution, you'll see that we are and always have been a republic - a government ruled by representatives, not the people. We choose our representatives in Congress, but it was never intended that the people actually choose the president; we merely advise those who do choose the president, and they are free to take or ignore our advice depending on what those people feel is best for the country.

None of what I said should be taken as an argument for or against either Trump or Clinton; it is merely a lesson on civics and American government and should be taken as such.
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by prfsnl_gmr »

Blu wrote:Time to respect our feudal lords, who know what's best for us.
Well...We, the people, did willingly elect Donald Trump President of the United States, and in light of some of his picks for various cabinet and federal government agency positions, I am slowly coming around to this view... :lol:

That said...and as much as I dislike he results of the latest presidential election...I think it would be disastrous for our system of government if the electors ignored the election results.
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by dsheinem »

ElkinFencer10 wrote:
None of what I said should be taken as an argument for or against either Trump or Clinton; it is merely a lesson on civics and American government and should be taken as such.
hear! hear!
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by prfsnl_gmr »

dsheinem wrote:
ElkinFencer10 wrote:
None of what I said should be taken as an argument for or against either Trump or Clinton; it is merely a lesson on civics and American government and should be taken as such.
hear! hear!
Yep! Great post, Elkin.
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by MrPopo »

prfsnl_gmr wrote:That said...and as much as I dislike he results of the latest presidential election...I think it would be disastrous for our system of government if the electors ignored the election results.
We could compromise and let the red states secede with Trump. You can crash at my place until you pass the WA State Bar.
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by ElkinFencer10 »

MrPopo wrote:
prfsnl_gmr wrote:That said...and as much as I dislike he results of the latest presidential election...I think it would be disastrous for our system of government if the electors ignored the election results.
We could compromise and let the red states secede with Trump. You can crash at my place until you pass the WA State Bar.
Can I come too? It should be too hard to get a WA teaching license since I already have an NC one.
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

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The guest bed is only a queen and you'd need to share it with pfsnl_gmr
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by ElkinFencer10 »

We can cuddle.
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by Blu »

I think that's a comical notion, too. I mean the Calexit was a thing right after the election. That's on par with the Catalonia independence movement right? Most of the wealth of Spain would be gone with an independence vote from Catalonia. If the wealthier states left, the rest of the country would be destitute. However, like prfsnl_gmr said before, people will have to continue migrating to where the work is.

And I'd still take Kasich, at least we'd have a little more civility around the problems our nation faces, rather than a man "who tells it like it is", with whom a majority of people feel he's not handling his transition responsibly. Additionally, it's been offered that Trump plans to executive produce "The Apprentice" in his "free time" as president. What a complete joke. It's as if someone goes out and ask, hey is this a conflict of interest to you? No? How about this? How about this? That bar has been set reasonably low.

The conspiracy here is the GOP in Congress have free reign to destroy the safety net and Trump will provide a lovely distraction and smokescreen for it.
Last edited by Blu on Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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