World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[J T]

I dislike TV news in general. I prefer to read because I can take in information faster that way, plus TV news uses nonverbal communication to influence how you feel about issues, and I prefer to deal with the facts and reason out what is best from there. I do, however, find that video is useful when something needs to be seen to be understood or appreciated as evidence. That being said, Donald Trump cannot be understood by reading a transcript. He makes heavy use of nonverbals and surrounding context when speaking, and his words are spoken in broken sentences, vagueries, and half-baked ideas. I feel like I need to watch his speeches to even understand what he is trying to say.

[o.pwuaioc]

Oh, the media definitely is biased, just look how wrong the polls were!

With sound logic like that, no wonder you voted for Trump.

[Sarge]

Polls are always interesting, because they can be used for two different reasons. The first is to gauge public opinion, which is always useful. But they are also often used to shape public opinion, which is why you can find a poll pretty much anywhere that supports your point of view.

Speaking of polls, I read a lot of FiveThirtyEight during the election. They probably got it the least wrong, which is a testament to their models working relatively well with fairly iffy data.

[MrPopo]

Your polls are only as good as your representative sample.

[J T]

Oh, the media definitely is biased, just look how wrong the polls were!

With sound logic like that, no wonder you voted for Trump.

I don't think snide sarcasm is helping anything here. I also think CRT's point is worth considering. Obviously, I'm not throwing out all media because polling predictions failed hard, but it is notable that they failed so hard. All of these rural people and blue collar workers who felt like the world thought they didn't count for anything were literally not counted in the poll predictions. Why was this missed?! Even amongst the usual best election predictors, save for one or two, they were wrong this election. A lot wrong. How did a group of people large enough to sway an election get missed?

I don't think the point to learn from this is 'don't trust liberal media', per se, but it does suggest that there were major gaps in our knowledge.

[jp1]

Jp1, easy, man. I disagree with CRT a lot as well, but counter his assertions with facts and reality, not personal scorn.

What "personal scorn"? The fact I find it distasteful that he continually bashes the entirety of the population that needs help, or in his words "a handout".

It's cool though. I've had enough of this shit, feel free to issue a ban or whatever if you like. I'm tired of watching the "silent majority" flap their gums about all the human garbage looking for a handout.

[J T]

I feel your frustration jp1, but that is at the core of people's political differences. The left wants to do the most good for the most people, and will leverage governmental power to do so. The right champions freedom from govenment involvement, particularly through taxes and business regulation. The right generally follows a kind of equality based on the principle of everything being equal in the rules for everyone, whereas the left champions equality by looking at existing inequities and trying to leverage the system to balance them out.

At least that's how I typically think about it. It's a bit of an oversimplification, but I have to remind myself of the core differences as I'm feeling my blood boil every time I hear the word "handout."

[MrPopo]

That does seem like an accurate summary. I think another sticking point is that it feels like the people on the left are unwilling to let people fail; at least that's how the social safety net can come across as.

[Sarge]

There's always a balance there. Sometimes, people need the safety net. Other times, folks abuse the safety net. It's trying to find the best way to help the people that need it while also hopefully making them productive members of society where possible. We just differ on how to achieve that at times. Meeting immediate needs versus achieving long-term goals when lifting people out of poverty can be tricky.

[marurun]

Incorrect polling is not evidence of media bias.