World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[dsheinem]

Trump has never held any job of any merit. He's a trust fund baby who has managed only to not completely blow that money: http://www.moneytalksnews.com/why-youre ... ald-trump/

[MrPopo]

I agree with all of your points. I merely felt it necessary to point out that no elected experience is not a "glaring omission" in Presidential qualifications. All the other things that are terrible about Trump suffice.

[Sarge]

In many ways, they've bought into what those on my side have been told for years, that we need to separate our personal morals from our politics, much like many Democrats were able to do with Pres. Clinton.

As I take a moment to wade into waters from which I may not make it out alive...

Clinton's particular failings were not nearly so brazen as Trump's, and not nearly so misogynistic. Trumps abuses were sexual assault and treating women like objects. And Clinton's failings didn't include personality traits most commonly associated with toddlers. He was still able to be a keen negotiator and a dedicated politician and public servant. You might not agree with Clinton's legislative and executive legacy (and I certainly don't at times), but he was a far better president and leader than Donald Trump has any hope of being. Trump routinely appeals to negative and divisive emotions. That's why BMF is so at wit's end over all this.

Whew, finally got some free time here. Anyway, if we are comparing sexual exploits, even if we make a large assumption that the Trump stuff is all true, that just puts him in the league with Pres. Clinton. Both used their power and took advantage of women throwing themselves at them (and in some cases, forcing themselves on them). Again, assuming it's all true on both sides.

My overall point was that you may think Trump is going to be a terrible President. But Democrats managed to separate Bill's astoundingly scummy (and potentially criminal) sex life from his political acumen, and often argued that personal sexual character and fidelity didn't matter as long as he was getting the job done. And as you point out, he was most assuredly a skilled political negotiator. But if we're going to use that argument, then claiming moral outrage at Trump's actions and having it disqualify him from the office would be hypocritical at best. That is my issue with many that seem to be feigning offense for pure political purposes.

Will Trump be awful? I don't actually know that. Probably. As awful as Hillary? Maybe. Maybe not. He's such a wild card that he could end up being passable if he allows opinion polls to sway him once he's in office, much as Pres. Clinton did, or he could be a loose cannon, wildly unpredictable from day to day. I'd probably almost rather have that than someone calculatingly corrupt like Sec. Clinton, but I think there's a chance that Trump is a lot more calculating than folks are giving him credit for, as well.

Once again, this might be the worst election cycle I can remember in my lifetime. Actually, I take that back. It's definitely the worst. I usually live and breathe politics around this time of year. This time around? I'm just ready to cast my vote and be done with it.

[MrPopo]

I think the difference between Clinton and Trump is that with Clinton, you had a term and a half of successful work as President before that stuff came out, and that was the only real black mark on him. With Trump you have a slew of racist and other batshit comments on the campaign trail, to the point that this comes off as a "you know, I'm really not surprised". It feels like the cherry on the shit sundae.

[Xeogred]

Once again, this might be the worst election cycle I can remember in my lifetime. Actually, I take that back. It's definitely the worst. I usually live and breathe politics around this time of year. This time around? I'm just ready to cast my vote and be done with it.

This is the first year I finally started really paying attention and what a shit show, to say the least. Very embarrassing too.

For Hilary I think it should be a rule that a spouse of a former president cannot run for presidency. That's a monopoly if I've ever heard of one.

[J T]

This desire to equate Donald Trump and Bill Clinton's sexual scandals makes no sense to me as a strategy for Trump. Yeah. He's as bad a as Bill. OK. Soooo... he's impeachable then?

Also, it's often stated that Hillary is corrupt as if this is a simple matter of fact. While I am aware of the controversy surrounding her use of a private e-mail server and the controversy about what she could have done to possibly prevent the Benghazi attack, the finer details of the goings-on of both of these events fall into complicated moral grey areas, rather than being outright corruption. Much of the rest of her political career has been devoted to improving healthcare and helping children and families. So, I'll open the floor to you Clinton detracters to explain to me the facts of what makes her corrupt, outside of emails and Benghazi which I'm familiar with.

[BogusMeatFactory]

This desire to equate Donald Trump and Bill Clinton's sexual scandals makes no sense to me as a strategy for Trump. Yeah. He's as bad a as Bill. OK. Soooo... he's impeachable then?

Also, it's often stated that Hillary is corrupt as if this is a simple matter of fact. While I am aware of the controversy surrounding her use of a private e-mail server and the controversy about what she could have done to possibly prevent the Benghazi attack, the finer details of the goings-on of both of these events fall into complicated moral grey areas, rather than being outright corruption. Much of the rest of her political career has been devoted to improving healthcare and helping children and families. So, I'll open the floor to you Clinton detracters to explain to me the facts of what makes her corrupt, outside of emails and Benghazi which I'm familiar with.

This is the frustration that I've come across when talking with people who say that she is horrible, untrustworthy and the scum of the earth. Benghazi was a bad call, but hindsight is 20/20, we have no proof that adding extra security would have assured their safety. Some have said that her wikileaks emails detail her wanting to ban guns altogether. I looked at the sites that quoted supposed emails and checked through wikileaks emails personally and found no evidence, nor the quoted email.

Some say she did insider trading in the 1970's and the only thing there is that she went through a firm that allowed her to put less money down than they normally take because she was friends with someone in the firm. It isn't illegal to do so but is very risky for the intermediary firm monetarily. She earned a big payout in the end of her short time trading, but did come across numerous losses and ups and downs in the tame.

The other thing people call out is that she purchased some land and one of the men involved in the trade was a con artist and put into prison.

Another issue is that she supposedly stole from the white house before leaving. The Clinton family is allowed to take gifts given to them that aren't a part of the white house registry. Some of the items not listed on the registry were meant to be and those were taken. They were later given back or paid for. An error in the books by the department responsible that was quickly fixed.

Oh man.... what a horrible traitor to our country. She is going to burn it all down. What a shifty person.

[CRTGAMER]

My overall point was that you may think Trump is going to be a terrible President. But Democrats managed to separate Bill's astoundingly scummy (and potentially criminal) sex life from his political acumen, and often argued that personal sexual character and fidelity didn't matter as long as he was getting the job done. And as you point out, he was most assuredly a skilled political negotiator. But if we're going to use that argument, then claiming moral outrage at Trump's actions and having it disqualify him from the office would be hypocritical at best. That is my issue with many that seem to be feigning offense for pure political purposes.

Will Trump be awful? I don't actually know that. Probably. As awful as Hillary? Maybe. Maybe not. He's such a wild card that he could end up being passable if he allows opinion polls to sway him once he's in office, much as Pres. Clinton did, or he could be a loose cannon, wildly unpredictable from day to day. I'd probably almost rather have that than someone calculatingly corrupt like Sec. Clinton, but I think there's a chance that Trump is a lot more calculating than folks are giving him credit for, as well.

Once again, this might be the worst election cycle I can remember in my lifetime. Actually, I take that back. It's definitely the worst. I usually live and breathe politics around this time of year. This time around? I'm just ready to cast my vote and be done with it.

You are not kidding, out of all the smart people (yes there are some in congress believe it or not) why did we get these two at the end of the line. Trump is arrogant which is good but also kills him in the polls. Clinton; I almost get an impression of "fast track a women president" due to the only contender (all others dropped out way too early) in the Democrat race was hoarse voiced Bernie Sanders.

For Hilary I think it should be a rule that a spouse of a former president cannot run for presidency. That's a monopoly if I've ever heard of one.

THIS. Legally she can, but there is that spouse influence by former president on the country's decisions. When you think about it both influenced each other in the maximum allowed two Presidential terms "already held office as spouse" really should be considered. Why was this point never made more public in the agenda to make voters at least aware!?

[J T]

Voters are aware that Hillary is married to Bill. They were also aware that George Bush Jr. was the son of George Bush senior. There may be potential political dynasty problems, but it's different than nepotism because we can vote for a different candidate during the primaries, or during the actual election.

[MrPopo]

I gotta be honest; at this point I'm kinda digging Joe Exotic.