The Retro PC Thread

[Ziggy]

That might be a hard thing (if not impossible) to track down. I always figured that "gaming" was more of marketing term, and not an actual industry term used for classification.

[noiseredux]

but I mean some laptop had to be the first one to like be pushed as a device that would play games good instead of as a word processor or spreadsheet maker, right? When did mobile GPU's really start showing up? Early 2000's? Or earlier?

[noiseredux]

on the note above, I'd love to find an old (working) 98SE laptop for some old games.

I actually have a Win98 laptop, but it seems FUBAR... screen goes nuts/freezes before boot. I also have a crappy XP laptop somewhere.

BUT, what I'd really like to stumble upon is something with a floppy drive (mandatory) AND an optical drive if possible. A built in trackball would be awesome. I'd be cool if it was unique looking. Like how some of those old laptops were the same offwhite/beige that desktops of the day were.

Related question: did any laptops of the day have 5.25" floppy drives? I'd imagine that if so they were super old like 286 laptops? Or were there any that had some kind of parallel port external 5.25" drives? Probably not huh?

[isiolia]

Related question: did any laptops of the day have 5.25" floppy drives? I'd imagine that if so they were super old like 286 laptops? Or were there any that had some kind of parallel port external 5.25" drives? Probably not huh?

Nothing you'd really consider a laptop now, no.

I think a big consideration with the vintage of laptop you're talking about too is that a lot of LCDs in use were terrible for gaming. While we still distinguish between panel types now, with TN and IPS and all that, the less-expensive option back then was Passive Matrix, which tends to feature washed out colors and obscene levels of ghosting. As in, so horribly bad that it's basically why mouse cursor trails were a thing, because it was otherwise easy to lose where it went.

'course, it -was- what handheld consoles used at the time, due to cost, but I don't think people tend to pine for the awesome Game Gear LCD blur...do they?


Otherwise, I don't think the distinction that you're looking for would have really existed prior to the late 90s, and probably didn't proliferate until the 2000s. 3D acceleration wasn't really a thing prior to the later 90s, and plenty of early examples that technically support it offer pretty mediocre performance. Either way, I'd look at ATi's offerings mostly. They did have the Rage LT, basically a low power Rage II later Pro starting in '96. Then they started branding things as Rage Mobility in '98, which was the Rage128 line - corresponding more, I'd say, with 3D acceleration being more common (my first single card was a Rage 128 anyway, where I had a Rage Pro + Voodoo2 prior).

That said, "Intel Integrated" wasn't actually a thing until around the same time, and wasn't in mobile parts until 2001. So, having a Rage LT chip or something might be better than a Cirrus Logic one, but the manufacturer would have had to pick something. Maybe having discrete RAM would set it apart, which I think was with the Rage Mobility.

My guess is that you'd have seen laptops specifically targeting the gaming market in the 2001/2002 timeframe, since that's when nVidia put out the GeForce2Go product (which they bill as the first mobile GPU), and ATi had the Mobility Radeon start to come out, with both having multiple variants.
Alienware's first laptop (the Area-51m, which of course, they bill as the first gaming laptop) used a slightly later revision of the Mobility Radeon when it came out in late 2002.

[noiseredux]

I think a big consideration with the vintage of laptop you're talking about too is that a lot of LCDs in use were terrible for gaming. While we still distinguish between panel types now, with TN and IPS and all that, the less-expensive option back then was Passive Matrix, which tends to feature washed out colors and obscene levels of ghosting. As in, so horribly bad that it's basically why mouse cursor trails were a thing, because it was otherwise easy to lose where it went.

man, I remember using a monochrome laptop back in 94... just playing Solitaire on that thing was a struggle. But it also felt like the future to me haha.

Otherwise, I don't think the distinction that you're looking for would have really existed prior to the late 90s, and probably didn't proliferate until the 2000s. 3D acceleration wasn't really a thing prior to the later 90s, and plenty of early examples that technically support it offer pretty mediocre performance. Either way, I'd look at ATi's offerings mostly. They did have the Rage LT, basically a low power Rage II later Pro starting in '96. Then they started branding things as Rage Mobility in '98, which was the Rage128 line - corresponding more, I'd say, with 3D acceleration being more common (my first single card was a Rage 128 anyway, where I had a Rage Pro + Voodoo2 prior).

This is interesting/good history. Thank you.

Alienware's first laptop (the Area-51m, which of course, they bill as the first gaming laptop) used a slightly later revision of the Mobility Radeon when it came out in late 2002.

Yeah I have seen those. And really I figured that either Alienware or Sager would be the first to aggressively brand their shit as "GAMING" hardware.

[samsonlonghair]

Yeah I have seen those. And really I figured that either Alienware or Sager would be the first to aggressively brand their shit as "GAMING" hardware.

Before then, laptops with all the bells and whistles were marketed as "desktop replacements". Today the same things are marketed as "Ultrabooks" except that ultrabooks weigh less then desktop replacements... which can be explained by the march of technological progress.

[Sarge]

Yeah, the first laptop I bought was a "desktop replacement", a hefty Dell Inspiron 8200 with a P4 @ 1.7 GHz and a GeForce 4 440 Go card with 64MB of memory. That was a nice machine, actually. And as far as I know, it still works, although it really needs a reformat, XP on there is sloooooow.

[noiseredux]

Yeah, the first laptop I bought was a "desktop replacement", a hefty Dell Inspiron 8200 with a P4 @ 1.7 GHz and a GeForce 4 440 Go card with 64MB of memory. That was a nice machine, actually. And as far as I know, it still works, although it really needs a reformat, XP on there is sloooooow.

that sounds like a badass machine.

[isiolia]

Before then, laptops with all the bells and whistles were marketed as "desktop replacements". Today the same things are marketed as "Ultrabooks" except that ultrabooks weigh less then desktop replacements... which can be explained by the march of technological progress.

"Ultrabook" is actually an Intel specification/trademark that puts a focus on low weight, long battery life, and relatively high performance (via SSD/etc). While they can often be high end machines of a sort, they're not really the same thing as a desktop replacement laptop.

(Essentially, it was Intel spec'ing out a Windows-based Macbook Air )

In fairness, I think a lot of the marketing push for them has tended towards an "everything" machine. Just more of a combination laptop and iPad or something, rather than replacing a full desktop PC.

[samsonlonghair]

Before then, laptops with all the bells and whistles were marketed as "desktop replacements". Today the same things are marketed as "Ultrabooks" except that ultrabooks weigh less then desktop replacements... which can be explained by the march of technological progress.

"Ultrabook" is actually an Intel specification/trademark that puts a focus on low weight, long battery life, and relatively high performance (via SSD/etc). While they can often be high end machines of a sort, they're not really the same thing as a desktop replacement laptop.

(Essentially, it was Intel spec'ing out a Windows-based Macbook Air )

In fairness, I think a lot of the marketing push for them has tended towards an "everything" machine. Just more of a combination laptop and iPad or something, rather than replacing a full desktop PC.

Valid points, but I still see Ultrabooks filling the same market niche previously occupied by desktop replacements. I like that you use the phrase "everything machine" because that's exactly what this is to the consumer. This is the laptop for the consumer who has the money to spend, doesn't want to make a lot of compromise, and maybe doesn't want to waste much time comparing specs. Call it an ultrabook or a desktop replacement. It's the laptop that does everything.