World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[Sarge]

This is why I don't live out West. I certainly don't make as much as I could, but I can live very comfortably in my home state as an engineer.

Except when the A/C goes out, of course...

[MrPopo]

Did you know most residences in the Seattle area don't even have A/C? You better believe when I was making my down payment on my house I held out enough money to get A/C installed right after I moved in.

[dsheinem]

Could you two please not degrade the level of discourse. I've actually been enjoying the recent conversation to this point.

Sorry if I lost my cool, but I tend to operate from a basic assumption that people will come by their decisions about candidates or other issues through the kind of deliberative exchanges that you are enjoying here. I have spent almost my entire time on this board extending that basic assumption and courtesy to other members, and tried to do nothing but facilitate that when I was a mod. I try to listen to what others have to say here on the board, I typically try to explain my positions with nuance and through an invitational (if also agonistic) frame, and I try to engage people because, through that process, I too am engaged and have my own worldview shaped. It's why I have so many posts and have sunk so much time here over the past 9 years.

So for someone - a mod at that - to simply proclaim that I am blindly choosing a political allegiance (despite the fact I've never said who I am currently supporting or why), and to suggest it is for one of two insulting reasons....well that is a complete affront to everything I stand for in terms of the value of discussion and debate both here on a forum in and society more broadly. I don't even want to engage the wall of nonsense that the rest of the post contained if someone is starting from an assumption of "I am going to ignore you, and others should to, because you are a blind supporter who feels guilty and/or greedy." Fuck that.

That the basic approach of Mike's comments about me were "you are libtard and I won't listen to you" also happens to be the operative major line of reasoning currently embraced by moronic and petualnt demagogues like Trump is of no small irony.

[Exhuminator]

Part of me wants to join this thread and really throw down with you guys about political philosophy and what not. But that would necessitate that I support either candidate in some form or another. That's just not the case this time around.

Sadly I feel equal despair about both Clinton and Trump. I think they both have equally concerning amounts of negative things about them, though different things, yes. I agree with plenty of the negatives things said in this thread about both candidates.

I am not biased towards any race, gender, religion, whatever. I am totally A-OK with a female president. I would be A-OK with a gay female transgender atheist president even, just to shatter all the glass ceilings left to give shit about. If only that person can do a proper job running the country, that's all I ask. Really! But what I'm not okay with, are career criminals with nefarious ties to shady shit. Sadly both our current candidates fit that description. If you don't believe it, research more deeply outside the main media circus.

So yeah, as much fun as you guys are to quibble with, I'm just not gonna defend and fight over Clinton or Trump. Catch-22 if you ask me. So no matter who we end up with, all of my hope rests with the senate, the house of representatives, and the supreme court to keep this country sane and together during their time in office.

[marurun]

If there is one thing politics has taught me, it's that one can appear to be dishonest (because really, none of us really knows shit where any of that is concerned, as much as we like to think we do) and still be a great manager/administrator/politician. If honesty were a requirement for president, very few of our historical presidents would ever have been elected. In fact, some of our greatest presidents would never have been elected. So when I go into the election booth I will be looking at the administrative history of the candidates involved, and for the most part the candidate records speak for themselves. Again, remember to compare to historical benchmarks.

[MrPopo]

An honest politician is one who stays bought.

[prfsnl_gmr]

If you are confused regarding which party you should vote for inNovember, read each party's platform. The Republican platform is available at:

https://www.gop.com/the-2016-republican-party-platform/

The Democratic platform is available at:

https://www.demconvention.com/wp-conten ... -lines.pdf

Both are pretty dry documents, but if you search for them, you can find many articles comparing them.

.....

Also, I think that too many of you have too dim a view of the people engaged in the political process. Certainly, some are corrupt, but most are good people doing what they think is best for their communities. It is easy to disparage them and their efforts, but it is much, much harder to get out there and do something. (I serve on a local non-profit that organizes events and comments on local issues. I have learned that someone will criticize any decision and almost no one will answer a call for volunteers.) IMO, the dedication shown by many of them to public service - and regardless of whether you agree with their views - is worthy of some degree of admiration.

[Jmustang1968]

To your last point prfsnl, I feel most politicians enter wanting to make a difference and have a set of ideals, but inevitably become corrupted by the system, process, and reality.

[prfsnl_gmr]

To your last point prfsnl, I feel most politicians enter wanting to make a difference and have a set of ideals, but inevitably become corrupted by the system, process, and reality.

I think that you are conflating corruption with compromise, which (tragically) has become a negative term in modern political discussion. Compromise results from recognition of limitations and alternate or opposing viewpoints. (IMO, compromise is good, and only a fanatic would not consider it.). Corruption, on the other hand, results from a desire for personal gain. Undoubtedly, it still exists, but I think that it is pretty rare and almost always detected by law enforcement, the media, or both.

[Jmustang1968]

To your last point prfsnl, I feel most politicians enter wanting to make a difference and have a set of ideals, but inevitably become corrupted by the system, process, and reality.

I think that you are conflating corruption with compromise, which (tragically) has become a negative term in modern political discussion. Compromise results from recognition of limitations and alternate or opposing viewpoints. (IMO, compromise is good, and only a fanatic would not consider it.). Corruption, on the other hand, results from a desire for personal gain. Undoubtedly, it still exists, but I think that it is pretty rare and almost always detected by law enforcement, the media, or both.

I am not sure if I am so much conflating or just saying it is a thin line that seems hard to know where to draw it.