World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[marurun]

With Trump I can't tell what's serious and what's a throw-away line. He's said so much contradictory, offensive nonsense there's no place to go. I either have to assume it's all serious or none of it is, because he doesn't give much clue as to which he's doing when he opens his mouth. He can be anything to anyone because you can decide for yourself what he's serious about and what he's not serious about. He's nothing and everything all at once. I know I'm not alone in thinking this is a serious problem.

[Sarge]

Oh, you won't get any argument from me that he's scattershot. It's why I can't be sure what to believe on many stances he takes.

This one, though, seems too absurd to believe. I believe it's a fairly slick PR move, because it simultaneously makes light of all the myriad associations that the media has been trying to make with him and Russia and the DNC hacks, while shifting attention back to Mrs. Clinton. If Trump knows anything, it's how to tweak the media.

[Exhuminator]

Let's be honest here folks; hiding emails from a government you want to run, or asking a dangerous foreign government to find them, are both equally shitty things to do.

I'm not excited for either of these candidates. As to who's the lesser of the two evils, well that's something we all have decided for ourselves by now.

[stickem]

Let's be honest here folks; hiding emails from a government you want to run, or asking a dangerous foreign government to find them, are both equally shitty things to do.

I'm not excited for either of these candidates. As to who's the lesser of the two evils, well that's something we all have decided for ourselves by now.

Agree with that last paragraph. We're fucked either way this election lol.

[marurun]

Agree with that last paragraph. We're fucked either way this election lol.

There are groups of people who have already been pretty well fucked by society who stand to see their situation in the US get a lot worse under one candidate than the other. As a white male, I will be largely unaffected regardless. My choice this election is for others, not for me.

[prfsnl_gmr]

Agree with that last paragraph. We're fucked either way this election lol.

That is not the case. We will be fine either way. (As Obama demonstrated, and consistent with our system of government, the POTUS is not that powerful.). Regardless of who's elected, I don't think that he or she will be able to enact much of an agenda. He or she will be able to appoint Supreme Court justices, however, and that is reason enough to vote for a more liberal candidate.

I am obviously a pretty liberal guy, and I think that Donald Trump presidency would be embarrassing. I will vote for Hillary Clinton. I really wish that she was a better candidate, however, and I think that some of her decisions as Secretary of State impugn her judgment, including her decisions regarding the use of a private email server. I think, however, that the whole scandal is greatly overblown. (Basically, she didn't follow policy. It was a bad decision, but it wasn't criminal conduct. Also, she isn't hiding anything from the FBI. I have worked with that agency before, and it doesn't matter who you are, how much money you have, or who represents you. You can't hide anything from them.)

Likewise, I think outrage over Donald Trumps "hacking" statement is overblown. It was a joke. It wasn't that funny, and it was unbecoming of someone running for President. At the end of the day, however, it was harmless, and Donald Trump made many other statements that are far, far worse.

[J T]

While I am very disappointed that the DNC crafted a strategy to position one of their own candidates against another, especially when that candidate has been so popular with the people, I nevertheless find it even more upsetting that the Russians are apparently trying to sway a US election. Growing up during the Cold War era, I am fully surprised that republicans are not going bananas about this! They have traditionally made Russia, and formerly the Soviet Union, out to be the source of great evil in the world! Donald Trump, if nothing else, is full of surprises. I'm not completely surprised though, given Trump's financial ties to Russian oligarchs.

The real question is, why does Russia want Trump for president? There is a lot of complex conflict between Russia and NATO and the EU, that has led to major battles being fought over the Ukraine. The Russians were delighted that Britain left the EU, so much so that some have wondered if they covertly played a hand in that decision, though Putin officially denies any involvement. Now, since Trump has threatened to pull out of NATO as part of his "America First" strategy, this would mean that a weakened EU and NATO would allow for Russia to further expand their power on the world stage without having to worry about these two combined powers. Trump has also discussed removing economic sanctions on Russia. I think these are the reasons why these e-mails came out so conveniently just one day before the start of the DNC convention. I think these are also the reasons why Russia is interested in a Trump win and have helped fund his campaign.

I find Trump fascinating because other than his social conservatism, he defies traditional notions of fiscal conservatism. He's not a real republican, or a real democrat. He kind of takes the worst of both sides and puts them into his own unique package. His desire to pull out of various trade agreements (NAFTA, TPP) combined with his desire to slap a 25% tariff on Chinese exports and a 35% tariff on Mexican exports could quite possibly start a global trade war. Not to mention that it completely flies in the face of traditional republican beliefs about the beneficial force of free trade and the open market, which is why they always (before Trump) would call for deregulation. And yet, paradoxically, he still uses the deregulation arguments in other industries, such as coal, which is regulated to promote clean and renewable forms of energy that decrease the impact of climate change, and in my opinion, should be regulated for these reasons. Actually though, some experts say that natural gas has replaced coal to such an extent that if Trump is going to "save coal" as he promised, that he will have to use tax payer money to subsidize the industry, which also goes against the ideals of the free market. This should upset both the left and right, though the right seem to be getting on board with him for now because it gets votes from coal miner country.

I think Trump is utterly dangerous for both the left and the right, but his wild tactics and beacon for controversy have certainly attracted him a lot of followers. If we could all get past the name calling, this would be a great time for a national dialogue about the best approaches to trade and foreign policy, but too many people are unable to get into this level of detail about the issues because they are too mired in name calling and cherry picked political talking points, which admittedly both democrats and republicans (and especially the media) have all helped to perpetuate. Admittedly, it is hard to engage in self-analysis and self-criticism during election season when any sign of weakness or second-thought is pounced on by the electioneering engine.

Do we need more protectionism in trade and foreign policy? Trump, though he lacks nuance and finesse, has brought up a good point that the free market may not work as well under the conditions of our country producing less (Trump said "we're not producing anything", so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt as to what he meant by that). At the same time, this defies traditional right-wing economic policy that says the free market is what succeeds and economies only survive in spite of regulation, not because of it.

Again, on foreign policy, how do we best play along with the rest of the world. Obama has also said that NATO nations do not always pay their fair share. Trump, again without nuance or finesse has said "we're getting a bum deal" and has threatened to walk away from NATO if he can't get America "the best deal." Some of Trump's ideas, though utterly ham-fisted and full of racist and protectionist bluster, are calling out issues that should be more a part of the national dialogue, though I think they would be far better handled by someone else.

[prfsnl_gmr]

These are fantastic points, and I think that you are absolutely correct. I appreciate both Bernie Sanders and, somewhat bregrudgingly, Donald Trump for bringing these issues to the forefront.

Also, I think that Russia's attempt to meddle in our elections is, to a certain extent, a taste of our own medicine.

[TEKTORO]

Trump sucks when he says make America great again he means let's save Corporate America.


America is a country not a corporation, we are people not a product, the land of the free not work for free.

[J T]

Trump sucks when he says make America great again he means let's save Corporate America.


America is a country not a corporation, we are people not a product, the land of the free not work for free.

I agree with your second statement, which gets at Trump's central message that we should treat the country like a business. However, much of corporate America is upset about both candidates, and moreso about Trump.

Hillary has given out a detailed economic plan, which is summarized here if you're interested in more details, but basically its the kind of thing corporate America doesn't like because it means higher taxes for the rich, lower taxes for the middle class, and adding regulations that will deter multinational corporations from sending jobs out of the country by buying cheaper foreign labor, and from moving their profits through shell companies in other countries to avoid having to pay US taxes.

Trump, to my knowledge, has not given out as much detail about his economic plans, but a lot of what he says has corporate america (and regular america) freaked out. One of the most startling things he has suggested is that we default on our national debts, much like he would do with one of his failing casinos when he declares bankruptcy or fails to pay back his lenders. This is a highly dangerous strategy that will most assuredly lower the value of the US dollar, spike US bond interest rates, and do God knows what damage to the global economy. You can read more about this topic here.

As I have mentioned, Trump has also discussed placing high tariffs on exports from Mexico (35%) and China (25-45%). Any business buying from these countries will have to increase their prices. Trump is hoping that they will start US factories instead, thus creating more jobs. Trump has spoken about both raising or lowering the minimum wage, so its unclear what the pay for these new jobs might look like, if they are even created. This is particularly upsetting for the consumer electronics industry, where they get many of their parts from China where there is skilled labor that is bought cheaply for manufacturing complex electronics.

So, corporate America has been slow to warm up to Trump (which is putting it very mildly), though I did read in this article that John Paulson, who made about 4 billion dollars off of the 2008 housing crash, has jumped on board with Trump, so he has got some shady rich dudes in support of him.