Historical hallmarks of the JRPG genre

[Sarge]

But when a game's popularity still survives even this long, I very much think it maintains some measure of importance. I don't think being great is enough, sure, but I do believe the confluence of factors (popularity, critical acclaim, lasting appeal) is enough to put it over the top.

I think of it a little like movies. While a particular film may not necessarily innovate, there are still releases that execute a formula so well, and are so insanely popular from both a critical and commercial standpoint, that they are considered hallmarks well after their release. I don't think just mechanical innovation is sufficient, either.

[strangenova]

But when a game's popularity still survives even this long, I very much think it maintains some measure of importance. I don't think being great is enough, sure, but I do believe the confluence of factors (popularity, critical acclaim, lasting appeal) is enough to put it over the top.

I think of it a little like movies. While a particular film may not necessarily innovate, there are still releases that execute a formula so well, and are so insanely popular from both a critical and commercial standpoint, that they are considered hallmarks well after their release. I don't think just mechanical innovation is sufficient, either.

Through all the factors you listed a game can become a classic, but it's a classic that bears the hallmarks of the genre. It does not define them. That is simply my point.

[Michi]

I've absolutely loved reading through this thread. I was much too young to appreciate (or in some cases grasp) many of the earlier RPGs being listed, so this thread has been very enlightening.

[Exhuminator]

You... you shut your mouth!

But dude, my mouth is shut. My fingers do the talking here!

On the real, I got to the end of the second disc of Panzer Dragon Saga earlier this year, and I was bored to the point of despondency. I totally agree PDS has a unique and beautiful atmosphere, and is a very independent experience. But the game has serious problems with overall pacing, scenario variety, a lack of challenge, and maintaining an engaging plot. Now that's not to say I think PDS is a bad game. I don't! It's just not a JRPG that I found to be personally fulfilling, and so I believe its overrated due to its scarcity, rather than true gaming value.

Now if we want to talk about shitty worthless JRPGs, let's talk about Chrono Trigger.*

When I think of hallmarks, I think of the games that brought the genre into fruition and the ones that changed the game entirely. Like the first srpg or arpg. Chrono trigger stands as one of the finest examples of a jrpg but it didn't start things, or change things. It takes more than a good narrative and refined mechanics to be a historic hallmark in my eyes.

This is exactly how I think about this situation as well.

It's almost like we need two lists here folks. One list for important innovative seachange JRPGs. And another list for highest quality super amazing JRPGs.

---
When we were talking about Japanese roguelikes earlier, I have to wonder how influential Cave Noire might have been for influencing the genre there. It debuted on Game Boy in 1991, predating the Mystery Dungeon games, but not Fatal Labyrinth. I just wonder since it was on Game Boy if it was more widely accepted in the region.

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/caveno ... enoire.htm




*J/K don't hurt me.

[Sarge]

Well, we probably need to clarify, then. What do we mean by "historical hallmark"? Is it simply mechanical innovation that leads to a sea change (Dragon Quest)? Is it a landmark release that changes the state of the industry in certain regions (Final Fantasy VII)? Is it a game that is critically acclaimed well after its release and generally acknowledged as the prime example of its genre (Chrono Trigger)? I think all of these can fall under that banner, but the definition is going to be important in deciding what is in and what is out.

I did think of one thing that would put Chrono Trigger on the list, though: New Game +. We take it for granted now, but that was the game that popularized the idea, along with the myriad endings. I honestly can't believe I didn't think about it until now, but that's how common it is in the genre.

[BoneSnapDeez]

Revised list. Haters, assemble.

The Dragon & Princess
Bokosuka Wars
Dragon Slayer
Hydlide
The Black Onyx
Mugen no Shinzou
Xanadu
Dragon Quest
Ys Book I & II
Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei
Final Fantasy
Phantasy Star
Fire Emblem
Final Fantasy IV/VI/VII
Dragon Quest V
Shining Force
Secret of Mana
Chrono Trigger
EarthBound
Fushigi no Dungeon 2: Fuurai no Shiren
Tales of Phantasia
Sakura Wars
Grandia
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Phantasy Star Online
Skies of Arcadia

SLIGHT EDIT: Had forgotten Tales of Phantasia.

[Ack]

Was there a spirited defense of Sakura Wars I missed? Did that happen? I don't recall reading it.

[BoneSnapDeez]

Hot girls and the addition of well-written dating sim elements into the SRPG genre. NO DEFENCE NEEDED.

[strangenova]

Wait, why is dragon quest 5 in the list?

[ElkinFencer10]

Hot girls and the addition of well-written dating sim elements into the SRPG genre. NO DEFENCE NEEDED.

This.