Historical hallmarks of the JRPG genre

[Ack]

Well dang, this conversation led me to discover EverQuest Next had been canned.

[Violent By Design]

Anyone mention Final Fantasy Tactics yet? I think that's an easy inclusion.

[BoneSnapDeez]

How come? I've already stated that I think Bokosuka Wars and Fire Emblem are the "no-brainer" strategy RPG picks, but things start to get hazy for me after that.

What merits the inclusion of FFT over the likes of, say, Shining Force, Langrisser, Ogre Battle, Sakura Wars, and Dragon Force? Or do some of those games qualify as well?

[Ack]

Is it? There are quite a few strategy/tactical RPGs that predate Final Fantasy Tactics and are more historically important and influential in game design. FFT was a big seller, and I guess it did serve as the gateway for a lot of western gamers into strategy RPGs, but I wonder how much of that success was piggybacked from the popularity of Final Fantasy 7 coming out less than six months before. While FFT did start the whole Ivalice world, I don't know if that's really a large enough force on its own to consider. Is there anything that FFT did that Tactics Ogre didn't do two years earlier?

[BoneSnapDeez]

As a SNES game collector, I will share an interesting truth that I have encountered over the years. If you say you collect SNES games, you will almost always immediately be asked one of two questions: "do you own Earthbound" or "do you own Chrono Trigger". I have told folks that I collect for the SNES for a decade now, and the response has always been for these two games. No Hagane or Dracula X or Aerofighters or Wild Guns. Just Earthbound and Chrono Trigger. Food for thought.

But yes, FF4 deserves to be on the list. I feel our list is also going to be primarily frontloaded in JRPG history.

I think there's a good argument for the inclusion of EarthBound. It really helped popularize the non-medieval "artsy" type of JRPG.

Hell, what was one of the selling points for the recent smash indie hit Undertale? "It's a lot like EarthBound."

[Exhuminator]

If Tactics Ogre was the first isometric unit based strategy game, it deserves a place in the list. That genre became quite popular for a while, and still has releases here and there. But I know Final Fantasy Tactics wasn't the first in that vein, if firsts count for much here.

[MrPopo]

If Tactics Ogre was the first isometric unit based strategy game, it deserves a place in the list. That genre became quite popular for a while, and still has releases here and there. But I know Final Fantasy Tactics wasn't the first in that vein, if firsts count for much here.

I don't have a huge preference between TO or FFT, but one of the two does deserve a space over the more traditional SRPGs thanks to focusing on units that were more fleshed out in their individual capabilities and having facing being a major component. Fire Emblem and Shining Force don't play too dissimilar from each other, but they do play very differently from TO/FFT.

[isiolia]

I was thinking along similar lines. By your own admission, it's an Everquest-styled affair, which is a very Western take on the RPG. Not to diminish its importance or anything as far as console RPGs in general (very much impressive in terms of scope and ambition), but it's just not quite in that JRPG category.

(It's also why we're not including Etrian Odyssey, which has roots in Wizardry.)

Thing is, as also I mentioned, PSO has roots in Diablo - and subsequent titles using similar online/etc models like Guild Wars or Borderlands don't exactly get pinned as JRPGs either. Had the same game been made with different style art assets, would it be included?

Outside of style, what distinguishes the Xenoblade games from other "offline MMO" style games?

Dragon Quest has roots in Ultima III as well.

Everquest was the admitted model for FFXI, but SE put their own spin on it, tailoring it more towards Japanese audiences...essentially, the same thing that other examples did. In turn, it's one of relatively few MMOs to ever enjoy much success there. Prior games were niche, and even most subsequent not-SE MMOs have been too. Blizzard hasn't really been able to make a dent there, despite their successes in China and Korea.

That's why I brought it up. It's a Japan-ified success story. I agree, it's not going to get confused with FFVI anytime soon, but it does fit in the general mold of what's being discussed. Not really what I'd personally label as a JRPG, but I wouldn't label SRPGs as that either really.

[Violent By Design]

How come? I've already stated that I think Bokosuka Wars and Fire Emblem are the "no-brainer" strategy RPG picks, but things start to get hazy for me after that.

What merits the inclusion of FFT over the likes of, say, Shining Force, Langrisser, Ogre Battle, Sakura Wars, and Dragon Force? Or do some of those games qualify as well?

Some of them qualify (Dragon Force is a good game, but it's not going in a Smithsonian), but FFT is by far the most popular tactics game of all time, and pretty much every game is compared too it.

Mechanically, FFT is not innovative or a first of its kind, but it introduced a large wave of people to Tactic games. Most peoples only exposure to tactics games are Final Fantasy Tactics(well, maybe not most, but it sounds more dramatic that way).

Is there anything that FFT did that Tactics Ogre didn't do two years earlier?

Make people play it.


I'd certainly add Shining Force, maybe Fire Emblem as well.

[Ack]

Is there anything that FFT did that Tactics Ogre didn't do two years earlier?

Make people play it.

That's funny, so did Chrono Trigger.

In fact, CT had sold over 2.65 million units by 2003, with an additional 790,000 on Nintendo DS by 2009 and an unknown quantity for the mobile phone, Virtual Console, Android, iOS, and PSN ports. Final Fantasy Tactics meanwhile had only sold 2.4 million units by 2011. Even taking into account CT's 3 year lead time, it has evidently been more popular than FFT.