Historical hallmarks of the JRPG genre

[BoneSnapDeez]

What about:

Didn't it kind of start this genre? At least on NES... it predated Zelda II's release by all of seven days!

And the cartridge was gold too!!!!!

[Violent By Design]

Chrono Trigger is well made, but why would it be the most important? It didn't really innovate anything.

Well, the thread says "historical hallmarks", and while it didn't necessarily innovate, it's pretty much the pinnacle of 16-bit RPG design, which is in itself a noteworthy achievement.

It's kinda like with first-person shooters. Even though DOOM wasn't the first, it was the game that absolutely crystallized aspects of the genre. Or for brawlers, even though I believe Renegade was the game that introduced belt-scrolling, it was Double Dragon that really solidified that genre.

I don't think it is comparable to Doom or Double Dragon at all. Prior to Doom and Double Dragon, the FPS and Beat Em Up genres were in relative infancy, they look more tech demoish now then post Double Dragon era.

You can't really say the same thing for Chrono Trigger. Chrono Trigger had been released in 1995(that is six years into its generation, already a full year after the release of the PSX/Saturn, and two years after the release of 3DO/Jaguar) and the JRPG genre was already very well established in the 8 bit era, and including 16 bit era RPGs (FFIV for instance is not all that different from Chrono Trigger, it is less refined because it is older, but is not anymore primitive really - you can replace FF with Phantasy Star and what not). The JRPG genre isn't really any different post Chrono Trigger or pre Chrono Trigger, unlike say, Street Fighter 2 vs other fighting games.


Perhaps if Chrono Trigger was outrageously popular, like Grand Theft Auto 3 popular, then I could see the argument, but CT never hit that cross-appeal commercial success though it did sell very well in its own right.

[Xeogred]

Perhaps if Chrono Trigger was outrageously popular, like Grand Theft Auto 3 popular, then I could see the argument, but CT never hit that cross-appeal commercial success though it did sell very well in its own right.

I was one of the few knocking on CT in the other thread, but this made me raise my brow a little. CT is almost universally seen as one of the biggest JRPG's in the history of the genre. Again we're being objective here so I totally see your argument above as purely valid, but I do think CT is a bit "outrageously popular" and JRPG's (before that name) were one of the biggest genres ever in the mid to late 90's for sure.

In fairness GTA is unfortunately in a completely different league than the rest of the entire medium. I recently heard via Giantbomb's podcast I think, GTA5 has sold more than 80 million copies. Apparently more than the ENTIRE Halo franchise combined for some reference. So GTA is a different scale. lol

[MrPopo]

If you're talking getting appeal outside of the niche that RPG fans were in the 16 bit days, then yes, CT doesn't meet that definition. It wasn't until FFVII that the RPG really became a mainstream genre.

But inside that niche during the 16 bit era it was definitely the most universally praised.

[Xeogred]

Well that gets me curious, what was the highest selling 8 bit JRPG?

[Violent By Design]

Perhaps if Chrono Trigger was outrageously popular, like Grand Theft Auto 3 popular, then I could see the argument, but CT never hit that cross-appeal commercial success though it did sell very well in its own right.

I was one of the few knocking on CT in the other thread, but this made me raise my brow a little. CT is almost universally seen as one of the biggest JRPG's in the history of the genre. Again we're being objective here so I totally see your argument above as purely valid, but I do think CT is a bit "outrageously popular" and JRPG's (before that name) were one of the biggest genres ever in the mid to late 90's for sure.

In fairness GTA is unfortunately in a completely different league than the rest of the entire medium. I recently heard via Giantbomb's podcast I think, GTA5 has sold more than 80 million copies. Apparently more than the ENTIRE Halo franchise combined for some reference. So GTA is a different scale. lol

You just acknowledged that Chrono Trigger isn't really that popular though.

You do know, that even to this day, CT is not actually that famous, right? People who do not care about video games, do not know what Chrono Trigger is. You cannot say the same for Pac-Man, Street Fighter, Sonic, Mario etc. I'm not necessarily just talking household names, it is reasonable that people who do not know anything about video games would know what Halo, Call of Duty or Warcraft are if not in passing, Chrono Trigger does not fit that description from my experience.

Within the context of its own genre, Chrono Trigger is not even the most commercially popular or influential. Final Fantasy 1 and Final Fantasy 7 are. I'm not even sure what makes CT distinctively different from Final Fantasy 6 in terms of influence. Actually, Pokemon is commercially more influential than Chrono Trigger is, by a very large margin (Pokemon Go makes this even more apparent) - Pokemon is only one year older than CT and is the same exact genre to make the comparison even more clear. GTA is hardly an outlier that I had to chose.


Chrono Trigger was one of the highest selling games of its year, but it did not have that much mainstream appeal in a vacuum. I owned a Genesis and my town was generally a Sega place(or a PSX/Saturn place at that time), and no one knew what Chrono Trigger was until a couple of years after it came out. It's popular, but it is not super mainstream popular.

CT's critical acclaim over states it's importance as a video game, both commercially and creatively.

[MrPopo]

I see the problem. As a Sega man you don't know RPGs since you had one RPG series across everything.

[Violent By Design]

I see the problem. As a Sega man you don't know RPGs since you had one RPG series across everything.

[Sarge]

Valid points as to the infancy of those genres. I can't discount that, and indeed, I hesitated to use those examples specifically because of that very reason. Perhaps Half-Life could be substituted for DOOM, as the genre was more fully-formed at that time. Likewise, perhaps Final Fight would be a better example, as the beat-'em-up genre had solidified a bit more by that point (even if that game is mechanically more simple).

I do think the astounding success of Chrono Trigger speaks well to its importance, though. As MrPopo points out, it wasn't really until Final Fantasy VII that the genre gained mainstream acceptance. I know because I was proselytizing about JRPGs for years before that, and it fell on deaf ears. Just because it didn't stack up commercially to FFVII doesn't mean it wasn't popular among people that actually played JRPGs, because at that time a lot of people didn't play JRPGs.

I think the combination of popularity (as defined in the era it was released), critical acclaim, and lasting appeal certainly warrant a discussion of its merits as a historically important game.

(Also, according to one source, the original Final Fantasy sold "only" 1.1 million units. 400,000 in the US, 700,000 in Japan. Chrono Trigger apparently sold 2.03M, vs. 2.55M for FFVI. Looking for US numbers now... 230,000 in US, apparently. It was certainly successful in its home country. 800,000 for FFVI, apparently. Even the biggest of the big RPGs weren't astoundingly popular then.)

[Violent By Design]

Valid points as to the infancy of those genres. I can't discount that, and indeed, I hesitated to use those examples specifically because of that very reason. Perhaps Half-Life could be substituted for DOOM, as the genre was more fully-formed at that time. Likewise, perhaps Final Fight would be a better example, as the beat-'em-up genre had solidified a bit more by that point (even if that game is mechanically more simple).

I do think the astounding success of Chrono Trigger speaks well to its importance, though. As MrPopo points out, it wasn't really until Final Fantasy VII that the genre gained mainstream acceptance. I know because I was proselytizing about JRPGs for years before that, and it fell on deaf ears. Just because it didn't stack up commercially to FFVII doesn't mean it wasn't popular among people that actually played JRPGs, because at that time a lot of people didn't play JRPGs.

I think the combination of popularity (as defined in the era it was released), critical acclaim, and lasting appeal certainly warrant a discussion of its merits as a historically important game.

(Also, according to one source, the original Final Fantasy sold "only" 1.1 million units. 400,000 in the US, 700,000 in Japan. Chrono Trigger apparently sold 2.03M, vs. 2.55M for FFVI. Looking for US numbers now... 230,000 in US, apparently. It was certainly successful in its home country. 800,000 for FFVI, apparently. Even the biggest of the big RPGs weren't astoundingly popular then.)

I'm well aware, Final Fantasy 1 sold less than Chrono Trigger - that does not mean that it was less commercially successful than Chrono Trigger was.

Final Fantasy came out in an entirely different market, 8 years prior to Chrono Trigger. JRPGs had significantly less demand prior to FF, and you could argue that directly because of FF, JRPGs started to sell higher. Chrono Trigger sold higher than Final Fantasy in a vacuum, but I would argue that it did not change the commercial landscape to the extent Final Fantasy did. As you said, not that many people played JRPGs during CT's time, but even less did during FF's time.


If you forced Square to wipe away the history of one of two games, Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy - they would almost certainly chose Chrono Trigger. Their company quite frankly, would likely have collapsed without Final Fantasy, essentially the backbone of what made Square - Square was built on Final Fantasy, both creatively and commercially. Chrono Trigger was just another hit for them after they had gotten the train rolling.