Gamers who harass women are literally losers

[Key-Glyph]

Also, if it's not obvious, hating on women is idiotic. But it's also not surprising. Of course, it typically correlates with lower-skilled individuals, so we probably shouldn't be surprised that they'd go for the easy jabs. It's probably also likely that many women won't fight back like a guy often would, which makes them a perceived easier target. And as we all know, losers love easy targets. Just like thieves usually target people that they perceive to be weak, which is often women and guys that look pitiful.

My interpretation of this is more along the lines of the age-old taunt "you throw like a girl!" In certain guys' minds a dude can totally suck at a game, and that can be embarrassing, but once a woman is doing better than he is, that's downright insulting. It's a power structure. It is presumed that a woman player will not be as good as the men players, and even if she is totally kicking ass, she's still a woman -- and somehow that just doesn't sit well with some guys.

The only way left to climb over the superior woman player is to knock her down a peg by either rattling her with insults and abuse, or getting the other players to band against her in some way -- even if it's just an acknowledgement of "yeah, she's other, and you're one of us. Even if you stink."

That's why in a similar study (or this particular one, I'm not sure, I can't read it at the moment to be sure) it was found that lower-skilled male players were more deferential and submissive to superior male players in contrast to the abuse they heaped upon the superior female ones.

See also the abuse that male homosexuals and trans women endure. It's all related.

See also the 17-year-old female Overwatch player who was so good she was accused of hacking. Two prominent pros promised they'd quit the scene if she was found to be legit. Guess what. She went on television to prove herself -- with a mask on, to protect her identity, and was holding back tears as she was interviewed -- and those pros had to retire.

I will repeat: she had to wear a mask to protect her identity while she proved she was a good gamer. Blizzard has officially cleared the allegations, too.

One last thing. Are we really going to co-opt every conversation about video game gender issues and make it about Anita Sarkeesian? We are trying to have productive topical conversation and somehow, again and again, it becomes a reason for people to derail and remind the world how intensely they dislike her material. We get it. She is not liked. This is not news.

The last time this happened we were having a conversation about the mountains of abuse she receives through social media, and if I'm not mistaken, the shooting threat at one of her venues. For several pages the conversation got turned away from the acknowledgement that the abuse was excessive and horrifying and back into the territory of "yeah but I don't agree with her." I love you guys, but can we just allow ourselves to focus on the real problems for a little while, and not about whether or not we agree with one particular person's opinion on something? Especially when we've rehashed that a million times elsewhere?

At least in that other thread we were actually talking about Sarkeesian. I am not entirely sure what purpose was served by bringing her up in this particular discussion, other than to possibly imply blame.

[pepharytheworm]

I find it quite telling that topics like this inevitable brings up Sarkeesian mentioned in a negative way.

[Sarge]

Apparently she's doing a little better than the older videos I watched. While I didn't agree with everything, she did a much better job in presenting her case in "Women as Reward". Perhaps all the cries for her to do better research paid off.

[dsheinem]

What "better research" is needed to show:

A) the tropes she identifies in games exist
B) said tropes are about gender and sexuality?

She covers those bases. You can dislike her politics, her educational training, her ideology, or her larger view of games, the game industry, etc...but the arguments about the existence of tropes that are presented in her videos are pretty straightforward, simple, and indisputable.

And did someone really make the argument that she shouldn't be wearing makeup if she's really a feminist? With statements like that as a starting framework, I don't even know why I am trying to engage on this topic

Enough about Anita, though. The thread for that is here for anyone interested: http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... 45&t=38613

[Sarge]

You're right, not worth continuing it. I think we're all pretty entrenched in how we feel about... who were we talking about again?

[J T]

Anita Sarkeesian's videos are under so much more scrutiny than any other male YouTubers videos because she is a woman and she is calling out the boy's club nature of the gaming hobby.

She's a brave woman. I don't know if I would endure the hyper-criticism, hate, and countless death threats she has received over doing something as harmless as making some YouTube videos. She's certainly held a mirror up to the gaming world. There are a lot more pock marks on our face than I ever realized before she showed up.

[Ack]

Obviously JT you have not spent nearly enough time around the Internet Hate Machine. You start with simple pranks and laughs, next thing you know you're watching Russian pornos where homeless people way too deep into AIDS go at it for a few bucks to help ease the pain of their final, miserable days. Not saying it's right, just saying we're all horrible human beings.

[Michi]

I find it quite telling that topic like this inevitable brings up Sarkeesian mentioned in a negative way.

It always does and I just don't get it. If one doesn't agree with her, fine. Acknowledge it, get over it and move on. Or better yet, if someone feels that passionately about it, write a thoughtful rebuttal that consists of more than "you're wrong", "you phony", "#notallgames."

*awesome post*

Key hits it right on the money. Incidents like the Overwatch example are the reason a lot of female gamers choose to either remain anonymous or not use voice chat.* Every one of them has had to put up with harassment in real life. Why the hell would they want to deal with the inevitable death/rape threats when they just want to chill out after a stressful day and rip somebody's head off in Mortal Kombat?



* Of course, the result of this is that their seeming lack of obvious presence makes any woman who does get on and admits to playing games seem the equivalent of a rare, golden unicorn, but that's a discussion for another day.

*She doesn't want men to see women as simple sex objects, but she cakes her face with makeup and never has a single salon dyed hair out of place. Why aren't pure and natural female looks good enough for a show called FEMINIST FREQUENCY?

This highlights a clear lack of knowledge of what feminism actually is.

It's not just equal opportunity.

It's not just equal pay.

It's not just equal representation.

It's not just reproductive rights.


It's also about not being judged for choosing one opportunity over the other.

It's also about not being criticized for your likes or dislikes just because of your gender.

It's also about not being disregarded when something they experience (like harassment) doesn't match what you've seen and/or done.

It's also about not being labeled a bitch just because you walked into a room without a radiant smile on your face, when people would look at the same expression on a man and not think a thing about it.

It's about not being judged for your looks, but also not being judged because how you choose to look.

But more importantly, it's about wanting these things, and all rights, equally for all genders.

[Erik_Twice]

Oh, c'mon guys, there's an interesting topic right here, there's no need to rethread yet again the Sarkeesian discussion. I thinks he's a rather poor critic, but that's it, no need to shoehorn her into everything

But yeah, I'm not surprised. Invariably, every single time I see someone being an asshole in Team Fortress 2, it's someone with just one or two points. Like clockwork.

Like I've been saying on Twitter, these people do not complain because they are bad. They are bad because they complain. That is, they are people which such an inability to cope with failure no matter how small that they cannot improve and will lash out at any perceived threat to fix their egos. You know "your character is OP" or racism. Anything goes.

[J T]

Part of what makes the study interesting is the details of the interaction effects because it gets at when guys are jerks to women and when they are jerks to other men.

When they are dying in the game a lot, they are more negative towards men (contrary to what the catchy Washington Post story headline says). When they are dying less (playing better defensively) then they are more negative to women. This result could be interpreted to mean different things, but it seems that they run their mouths when they think the girls can't hurt them, but if they are getting their ass handed to them by a girl, then they suddenly clam up and don't want to draw attention to the fact. When playing with other guys though, they start mouthing off when they lose, probably by making excuses and trying to insult the guy that just knocked them on their ass in-game.

Their frag counts are a different story though (and this is where the catchy Washington Post headline makes sense). They make the same amount of negative comments to other guys regardless of whether they are getting in a lot of kills or not. However, when facing off against females these guys make a lot more negative comments when their kill counts are low, and fewer negative comments when they are raking in the kills. Again, this finding is open to interpretation for what it actually means, but I see it as possibly meaning that these guys get really frustrated when they can't beat a girl and start attacking her verbally since they can't get off a shot. They calm down a bit if they are winning.

Whether talking about their number of in-game deaths or kill counts, it seems that there is probably some sexist belief that they should be able to dominate a girl at Halo 3, and when that belief gets challenged, the guys become embarassed or beligerent. I'm overstepping the data a bit in saying that, but I imagine that latent sexist beliefs about men being better warriors than women spurs their emotional reactions.

If you've ever wondered if, overall, girls or men get more negative comments thrown their way though, it's pretty clear in this study that the women do.