Summer Games Challenge 2016

[Exhuminator]

"Down in the Bonehoard" was the mission that turned Thief from "hey this is pretty cool" to "OMFG I love this game!" for me. Crawling through that little crack in that tomb into a huge gargantuan cavern that just keeps getting deeper... amazing stuff.

No idea if you'll end up loving Thief as I do, but I promise you're in for a helluva ride to finish this one. Super stoked you're playing it.

[prfsnl_gmr]

I made some good progress on my challenge this weekend:

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Summer Games Challenge

1. Adventure - Broken Sword (PC/iOS)
2. Beat 'em Up - Guardian Heroes (SATURN/360)
3. Fighting - Virtua Fighter Remix (ARCADE/SATURN), Virtua Fighter 2 (ARCADE/SATURN/PS3), and Fighting Vipers (ARCADE/SATURN/PS3)
4. FPS - Perfect Dark (N64/360)
5. JRPG - Dragon Warrior II (NES/GBC)
6. Racing - Virtua Racing (ARCADE/PS2), Daytona USA (ARCADE/DREAMCAST), and Sega Rally Championship (ARCADE/SATURN)
7. Rail Shooters - Virtua Cop (ARCADE/SATURN) and Virtua Cop 2 (ARCADE/SATURN)
8. Run 'n Gun - Ikari Warriors (ARCADE/PS3)
9. Shmup - Galactic Attack/Layer Section/RayForce (ARCADE/SATURN/XBOX/iOS)
10. Sports - Decathlete (ARCADE/SATURN)

Bonus Games!!!!
Banjo Kazooie (N64/360), Mario Kart 64 (N64), R.B.I. Baseball (NES), and Zaxxon (ARCADE/PS3)

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When I beat Fighting Vipers, I finished up the "fighting" category, and knocking out Ikari Warriors finished off the "run 'n gun" category. I am also halfway through the "rail shooter" category, and I will probably finish that off tonight or tomorrow when I dive into Virtua Cop 2. I am also a couple of hours into Broken Sword, which is a pretty great adventure game. I will keep working through that, and after I have had my fill of Virtua Cop 2, I will probably turn to the "racing" or "shmup" categories.

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Exhuminator: I am really enjoying your Shadow Tower journal. I do have a few questions, however: (1) Does the game utilize the same control scheme as King's Field? (2) Is the game a more "guided" experience that King's Field? and (3) Has the difficulty ramped up a bit now that you are further into the game?

[PartridgeSenpai]

It's so interesting watching someone with such a pension for violence take on Thief Gold. In my playthroughs of Thief Gold and Thief II, I more or less committed no violence (Unless it was absolutely necessary) and never got seen (unless absolutely necessary). More of those "absolutely necessary" moments of violence are in Thief Gold than Thief II, although it's almost always possible to get through a level by only manipulating light and just being patient. Although just the way Thief Gold works, being seen by a non-human (zombie, spider, etc.) doesn't count towards your "seen" total, so I usually just ran past them.

Very interested to see what your opinion is on the rest of the game.

My thoughts:

I personally felt the game drags on rather immensely in some of the more supernatural levels, especially the giant tombs when you're looking for the tablets, but that's mostly because I largely prefer sneaking past guards to hopping around spiders and zombies.

The immediatley above is why I prefer the sequel over the original. I know that Exhumy Sensei largely prefers the first over the second, but to each their own.

[Exhuminator]

Exhuminator: I am really enjoying your Shadow Tower journal. I do have a few questions, however: (1) Does the game utilize the same control scheme as King's Field? (2) Is the game a more "guided" experience that King's Field? and (3) Has the difficulty ramped up a bit now that you are further into the game?

1. It uses the same controls as King's Field. Except there are some interesting short cuts. For example to cast magic, you have press circle + triangle for right hand magic, or circle + square for left hand magic. You can double tap circle button to bring up the menu instead of pushing select. Stuff like that. There's no support for dual analog controls as usual.

2. Shadow Tower is more linear than King's Field. King's Fields are basically all metroidvanias, but Shadow Tower is a steady descent with branching pathways that are not recursive. However Shadow Tower is not guided in anyway insofar as telling the player how to survive or where to go.

3. After the brutal human world start, the earth world was easy, the fire world was pretty hard (on equipment), the water world wasn't too bad, but the illusion world was full of crazy hard enemies. Overall the difficulty has picked up a fair bit. It's still not as hard as King's Field 2-4, but it's harder than the first King's Field. That said, this stuff is relative, Shadow Tower is still harder than 95% of games most folks will ever play.

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Also about Thief Gold... you don't have to be sneaky. You can be a murderous ninja if you want. You just don't get as rewarded for it.

[Ack]

It's so interesting watching someone with such a pension for violence take on Thief Gold.

Whatever do you mean?

I kid, I kid. I just find the best policy is no survivors.

[prfsnl_gmr]

I just find the best policy is no survivors.

I always leave one survivor that can wander around the game world all by itself after I am gone.

<Hey, where is everybody?>

[Xeogred]

Just simply thinking about Thief gives me chills and I only played it completely newly/blind a few years ago. Once you get in the zone with the Dark Engine and how it feels, it's aged really well. I'm a bigger fan of pure sci-fi, but it's dense neo-gothic atmosphere was truly out of this world for me. I still have a hard time wondering if I like it more than System Shock 2. I just might.

Ack, I probably had a similar play style. I never tried to kill anyone, but I basically set out to knockout every single guard in every level. It was always rewarding and fun to me. I guess you probably get higher grades or something for doing pure ghost runs, but yeah. It's a major testament because I'm not a huge stealth guy myself, but the original Thief games, Deus Ex, Dishonored, Riddick, etc are a few exceptions that did it very well.

I'm still surprised Exhum doesn't think much of Thief 2. But it would be like a 9.9 vs a 10 (Thief 1) for me. While I was not a huge fan of the zombie levels, I did love the variety in the first game. Personally, I absolutely loved some of the huge cave/temple stages that if I recall correctly, some may have not even had a single enemy in them but were a string of mazes and puzzles/traps. So it felt like every level was pretty unique. The second game is a bit more standard and ... I guess down to Earth in a way, but the gameplay and level design is still absolutely incredible. Some levels like the dock stage or perhaps the bank, reminded me of Deus Ex a lot kind of a neat way. I think Karas is a fascinating villain, maybe not SHODAN level, but he certainly is amazing and Stephen Russell makes his insanity so believable... (then you humorously realize that it's the same voice actor as Garret).

Looking back though, it's easy to say that I can perfectly picture far more Thief 1 levels than 2. The second kind of all blends in.

Let's see, going through a list here and not spoiling anything for Ack or whatnot:

Thieves Guild is maybe one of my least favorite levels, but I remember there being a lot of red/brick looking areas. Maybe I'm mixing it up with something else. But it was some underground level that took me forever to navigate haha.

The Sword is hands down one of my favorite levels. It's mindblowingly twisted and nothing in Thief 2 was ever this creatively disturbed.

The Haunted Cathedral is hit or miss. I love the outside sections, but that damn church area was a pain if I remember right haha.

The Mage Towers, SSS+ rank. By far one of the best.

The Lost City is freaking cool and another strange design not really replicated in 2. Definitely along the lines of Down In the Bonehoard. I love these levels.

Song of the Caverns is amazing, I'd say this one is kind of a blueprint for what a lot of levels in 2 are like. More buildings and less caves/temples.

Undercover is amazing because the Hammers are crazy.

The final stretch of levels is awesome and gets pretty weird. Some spoilers...

Started feeling similar to The Many areas from SS2, haha

It's shocking that no new games have outmatched Thief's sound design, what, almost 20 some years later...

[Exhuminator]

I'm still surprised Exhum doesn't think much of Thief 2.

I think it's at least an 8.5/10, so I wouldn't say I don't think much of it. Compared to Thief 1; I lamented the loss of the supernatural elements, I didn't find the main villain as interesting, the levels were just huge for the sake of being huge and ran together in my mind, and Thief 2 just didn't scare me. That's a big one though. Thief 1 often made me nervous. In particular the mission "The Haunted Cathedral", where you have to negotiate your way through the city ruins to reach the cathedral itself. Who can forget its plaque:

"Warning: Great evil resides in this place, and it is no longer fit for men. The doors are sealed to protect us from that which lies within. Do not remain here".

They weren't kidding!

It's shocking that no new games have outmatched Thief's sound design, what, almost 20 some years later...

I absolutely agree. The greatest gaming audio experience I've ever had, was playing Thief 1 through these speakers.

[Xeogred]

But man, that level when you overhear Karas and someone else torturing and turning someone into a robot thingy... that was creepy as hell.

I know what you mean though, the creepiness ramps up as you progress through the first game. Some of those forest like areas and the weird enemies, it's trippy stuff and the obtuse environments are very unnerving.

I detest the final level of 2 though. That level is a game in itself. I think it took me a week or even more of off and on playing to get through that (mostly without a guide). By far the most ridiculously complex level in an FPS I've ever seen, it's too much.

Anyways, if you thought Human Revolution was a disappointment, I fear for your health if you ever get around to Thief 4, or even plan to attempt it. It's not like, terrible, but they basically messed up everything... and the sound design, very badly. Very very badly. The blackjacking and stealth was fucked up too. So basically yeah the biggest elements of what should make a good stealth game and defined the series, were broken. It had a good dungeon level like the third game, but that's basically the peak. Thankfully there's Dishonored.

I wish someone would demake Deadly Shadows into the Dark Engine, lol.

[Exhuminator]

But man, that level when you overhear Karas and someone else torturing and turning someone into a robot thingy...

I haven't played Thief 2 since circa 2002, and I still remember that exact scenario. That says a lot about the staying power of Looking Glass' brilliant design.

Anyways, if you thought Human Revolution was a disappointment, I fear for your health if you ever get around to Thief 4

Yeah considering its developer I don't have my hopes very high. I do own the game on 360 at least, I got it brand new for like $8. Oh and I own Dishonored, on 360 as well. Not played it yet but I will someday.

A lot of people told me Thief 3 wasn't any good, and I actually ended up enjoying Thief 3 more than Thief 2. I mean, Shalebridge Cradle was worth it on its own.